American snakes in Australia

[NoOne]

RR if carp were a good eating fish they would be protected like trout, must agree though theres nothing like a good carp bash

Australia (especially up north) is such an easy environment for animals to adapt to, many species of exotics could easily live in the tropics, that would be my biggest worry. Cornsnakes, the way they breed they could get out of control quickly.

 

[wattso]

like i said, no hope of that if they are sterile!

 

[Fangs]

Theoretically the problem has been dealt with by NPWS with the last amnesty they gave.
No trading,selling or breeding of any animal declared in that amnesty so in time they will all die out.
The problem is,as has already been touched on is that there are heaps of exotics out there and they aint that expensive either.
From what I have been told also is that another amnesty WONT happen but this doesnt seem to have reduced the availability of these animals.

Comments about disease in particular IBD caught my attention.It is in collections in Australia as well as OPMV from what I have been told from various sources.This being the case it does make you wonder how the hell it got here in the first place doesn't it?
For mine the potential problem of exotic viruses being brought into this country should be enough for anyone who loves or even has an interest in our herps to be dead against exotic herps being let in here for any reason with the exception of zoos etc.Although limiting it to Zoos and the like is still no guarantee of exotic diseases being imported along with the animals.

cheers M......

 

[raptor]

Perhaps if it was to happen, only allow it to happen with animals currently held legally on the books as per the amnesty. No importing that way and we all know how many are out there, also gives Zoo's a way to get rid of excess animals

That seems a sensible & reasonable idea ben, after all, with the amnesty they have given the ok for some people to own exotics. Unless they take that across the board it's a bit like saying person A can own a coastal but person B cant. They would have to have an idea how many are out here, so there is definitely safe breeding stock. For a law to be fair, it has to apply to everyone equally. Mind you, I'm an olive fanatic, so I dont care too much

 

[almaron]

have a thing for chams and iguanas meself

Funny you should mention that Wattso. I got a three year old iguana yesterday. A girl my wife works with is going back to school and couldn't take back with her. Free to a good home situation. She knew we keep herps, so she was offered to us first. Great personality. Never cared for them much, but she is starting to change my mind. Almost like a reptilian version of a dog. Likes to be scratched on the belly, sleeps with the cats, and stuff. Loads of personality. She is about 4 ft long head to tail and maybe body wise the size of an adult cat.

Also, my wife's chameleons are growing fast. They aren't nearly as personable as the iguana, but they are pretty cool. I think she needs to handle them more. I'll put up some pictures of both soon.

 

[wattso]

cool Al, love to see some pics mate, lucky you! Always thought chams look like small dinosaurs!
boy I wish I could keep one!

 

[Fuscus]

I've just been to a lecture by the Adeliade Zoo reptile staff and importing came up in the Q&A afterwards. An imported reptile has to be quarrantined for 13 months! Same goes for seized animals.
Seized animals are only offered to zoos. Because of this and a lack of quarrantine space, most seized animals are refused and subsequently put down. So if the men come and kick down your door and then take away little corny, chances are he is going straight to the snake pit in the sky via the freezer door.

 

[wattso]

shame that read about some land turtles from somewhere which were destroyed by freezing, in raymond hosers smuggled site.

 

[Brodie]

exotics r nice...IMO oz snakes r better...and ppl who keep any fauna illegally are scum

 

[wattso]

Whoa Brodes, put the six guns down mate, dont think any aps people keep illegal fauna!

 

[Brodie]

yea.......but ppl who do are scum

 

[wattso]

Just out of interest I only discovered you could obtain a license and keep herps two years ago! When did the current system [nsw] begin anyway? If its been years ill kick myself!
Also I see on many American sites, aussie pythons for sale, I assume these are the offspring of animals exported befor the current system? Can people in other countries currently import our wildlife? I even hear of wallabies in cages in japan. :?

 

[Fuscus]

I too had no idea that you could legally kept reptiles in Oz until I came to SA and saw them in shops (Thats a good arguement for reptiles in pet shops, it lets people know that keeping herps is legal). That was two years ago.
As for Aussie populations overseas, some would be decendants from legal exports while some would be smuggled animals or offspring of smuggled animals. Also many Australian animals are also found in Papua-New Gueniea and Indonesia
Same for wallabies with less smuggling. Also wallabies are easy to bred in captivity and there are feral populations overseas (including Scotland). New Zealand has large feral populations and wouldn't be surprised if they export them

 

[NCHERPS]

Wattso.
All Aussie native animals are banned from export, just your farm types are allowed out, that's when people want them! (poor sheep!)

As Fuscus has stated there are illegal smugglings, and also zoo's will export legally to other zoo's in the world, and then they breed them and sell the offspring to private people.

Neil

 

[wattso]

No wonder there is a big black market os for aussie wildlife, ive heard of americans paying thousands for aussie birds! Pity we cant export cane toads etc. Then again there is roo and croc ,emu meat, exported os!

 

[NCHERPS]

Wattso,
I don't think there is a big black market oversea's, well not in Europe or the States anyway, as many Aussie snakes are being bred very successfully, and have done for years, but you will always get te odd idiot that thinks he can make a fast buck by smuggling out a few.

Your right about the birds though, they are harder to breed and there is more of a market for them to be sure, it's silly really, the Oz goverment should do a quota system for export of birds, just certain ones that are really common over here, because from what I understand you get farmer shooting hundreds every year, because they destroy their crops.
Neil

 

[almaron]

I think the black market trade in Aussie wildlife might be a little to greatly exaggerated. Pretty much anything that is available there is also available here. Usually cheaper too. Hard to see how it would be profitable to smuggle something that is readily available for a few hundred bucks. Maybe birds are different, I don't know much about all that. But as far a reptiles, I find it hard to believe.

Almost all US stock is captive bred from imports decades ago, before the ban. Now I wouldn't doubt it does occasionally happen, but it ain't wide spread. I could see it for very rare, or unavailable species, but it would be very hard to explain how you acquired them, and it would only take one person to report it as suspicious for the US Parks and Wildlife guys to come asking questions.

Also I would note that just about every Aussie reptile is CITES listed, so even if someone were to smuggle to some other country, then try to import it "legally", it would still catch up to them. If someone can give me an example of an Aussie species that wasn't already here before the ban, then somehow just appeared on the market, I'd be most curious.

Oh yeah, and excess zoo stock does sometimes end up in private collections, but it isn't a common practice. I wish it was.

 

[pythonss]

exotics

hi everyone..

as most know my views on the subject i wont bother rehashing whats been discussed on here previous times.

but after watching the thread develop there are a few things that havnt been touched on that are very relevant to the discussion.

If you think there isnt a black market trade for australian reptiles with a good dollar value on overseas markets you either havnt been watching the news of late or have your head burried in the sand ! i mean that in the nicest possible way..lol

Mites, tick and esp worms that might make there way to this contry in or on imported snakes will be of differant species to what naturally occurs in australia. so wont be found on/in any australian wild reptile species. So that brings the question about would australian reptiles have the amunity to be able to deal with the new parrisites ? or in fact would any aus animal capable of being infected with these new parisites be able to deal effectivly with them ?
My opinion is of course not in the beginning. Like we need another introduced pest to add to our growing list.

I.B.D and parimixo have been found in australia ! yes very true.
But lets have a closer look and the indervidual cases before saying how easy it would be to contain.
both dieseases have been found in zoos that have imported animals form other zoos. these facilitys are supose to have the best quarintine procedures yet it is obviously not working. Private collection that got i.b.d and lost all of the animals obtained australian species as surplus from one of these zoos.
To date there are recomended qarintine procedures and time frames yet this is still not offically recignised as being perfect/garinteed
so yet agian we are prepared to risk what we have as native species because we like the look of a animal we have seen in pictures from over seas.

You are right we dont see gtp /womas being relased into the wild as they still hold a high dollar value. and yes most exotics would hold a good value with the origanal animals but the problem would come at a later date. its not the origanal of even the first generation of captive breed exotics that may be released here. Its after people have started triple clutching colubreds like corns that the value of the animal then becomes less that the price to maintain it , thats when the releases happen.
womas and gtps wont and never will breed at that rate so comparing the two with exotics is very practical. compare them to a bearded dragon that tripple clutches is closer to the point. now try and tell me that bearded dragons dont get released into the wild.

anyway there are many more things that could be discussed on the topic and we are really only scratching the surphase

cheers paul.

 

[wattso]

Um..what i meant befor about black market, i was specifically referring to our birds, we see attemps to smuggle them out often, usually inside cylnders like tiolet rolls etc, with that in mind, there must be a market, why risk huge fines and jail for something you could buy os for a few hundred as Al says? About farmers shooting them, good point, you'd think a controlled release [export] of those considered pest here, but worth trying to smuggle out to some, would solve 2 probs in one. Damper on the smuggling, farmers rid of pest, jobs created for licensed catchers etc. I was just assuming the black market inamwerica, my apologies, however im sure many other countries do have one. A japanese guy tryed to smuggle out 80 rare xmas island beetles recently. As for reptiles i dont know, i was just wondering how american sites advertise cheap aussie snakes. Thanks for the info~Dan

p.s. Paul, did you get my pm?

 

[NCHERPS]

Question for all: I have seen exotic birds for sale over here, like Macaws, Amazon, and African grey parrots, are you allowed to breed these in Australia?? Although they are expensive you can acquire them legally.
I know that they must have been bred here and not imported, so Is there a double standard here between exotic birds and Reptiles.

Neil