Arnhem escarpment (baby Nawarran)

[waruikazi]

Last week i was made look an absolute fool by mistaking an escarpment childrens python for an oenpelli . They look a bit different to a normal phase childrens and apparently the mistake isn't that uncommon, doesn't make it any less embarrassing though. They don't grow quite as large as the normals, and have a much more slender body and head and their skin changes colour in the light. The locals refer to these snakes as baby nawarran, which pretty well translates to baby oenpelli.

Here's some pics first one is escarpment one. First pic really shows the difference.

And the normal type.

 

[Braidotti]

Thats a awesome find

 

[SomeGuy]

You see many monitors or elapids? Is Nawarran the local name for children's pythons?

 

[mungus]

I would like to out as often as you do.....nice snake.
Never made a mistake.........then you have never made a decision !!

 

[waruikazi]

You see many monitors or elapids? Is Nawarran the local name for children's pythons?

Not too many monitors but they are still around. Difficult to hotograph though. Nawarran is the local name for both childrens and oenpelli pythons.

I would like to out as often as you do.....nice snake.
Never made a mistake.........then you have never made a decision !!

Certaintly not the first mistake, but definately the most embarrassing!

 

[Jungle_Freak]

Those escarpment childreni are very different , never seen pics of them before ?
I must admitt i did think it was a Oenpelli stuck in the truck /tray etc in the previous thread.

Good stuff Gordon .
Keep on searching for the holygrail lol
It must be so special being in that part of oz.
Hope you find your Oenpelli python to photograph .
Its a shame this species is not established in captivity because they appear to be rare ?

keep us posted Gordo
cheers
Roger

 

[waruikazi]

You see many monitors or elapids? Is Nawarran the local name for children's pythons?

Sorry mate didn't see the question about elapids. We haven't been seeing many at this time of the year, i thought we would be seeing alot more than we are. Mainly black whips and gwardars when they are about and usually during the day.

Those escarpment childreni are very different , never seen pics of them before ?
I must admitt i did think it was a Oenpelli stuck in the truck /tray etc in the previous thread.

Good stuff Gordon .
Keep on searching for the holygrail lol
It must be so special being in that part of oz.
Hope you find your Oenpelli python to photograph .
Its a shame this species is not established in captivity because they appear to be rare ?

keep us posted Gordo
cheers
Roger

Thanks Roger, it is a fun place to be!

I don't think we will ever see Nawarran real common in captivity. The few that have been kept were notoriously hard to keep healthy. I've been told and read that they get something similar to DPS and what the pygmy crocs get, even with presumably perfect conditions they still don't thrive. Hopefully they will be a specialist animal if/when they are available legally.

 

[zulu]

Interesting gordon and you got pics,does look oenpelli like that first one,really narrow head thats different to childreni ive got here from MT Isa and Daly waters.
Certainly a type of childreni worth working on.

 

[waruikazi]

Interesting gordon and you got pics,does look oenpelli like that first one,really narrow head thats different to childreni ive got here from MT Isa and Daly waters.
Certainly a type of childreni worth working on.

This was the view that fooled me!

 

[Jungle_Freak]

Has there been any surveys on numbers in the wild ?

Maybe they are a fragile captive dew to less genetic diversity within wild populations ?
Possibly being a species under threat of extinction ?

 

[waruikazi]

Has there been any surveys on numbers in the wild ?

Maybe they are a fragile captive dew to less genetic diversity within wild populations ?
Possibly being a species under threat of extinction ?

There are no surveys that i know of, but i don't troll through journals so there could be a semi recent study.

I have a book by John Woinarski et al ('Lost from Landscape' 2007, can be bought from online NTPWS for about $30) that says the wild population probably doesn't exceed 10000 individuals and no sub populations contain more than 1000. The information needs to be taken with a grain of salt because even the authors recognise that the evidence for this claim is pretty well all conjecture.

I think they could be more common than that, once you get into the escarpment country you realise just how big the place is and how many hiding spots there are, so there is no wonder no one ever sees them. But at the same time we don't know.

I personally don't think they are under any immediate threat of extinction and i think the only real threat they have is fire (and more locally poaching). They have a very small range but within that range they can be found in all of the different environments, except for flood plains. To me that begs the question why aren't they more wide spread over similar habitats throughout the north.

The answer i think is fire. The escarpment country is pretty sp****ly dotted with trees, grasses don't grow real well on the rocky outcrops and i don't think indigenous people ever really lived inside the rocky massif, so fires are really starved of fuel and the only source of ignition would be lightning strike. But out in the plains and woodlands fires have alot of fuel and would burn easily. Which is what i think has restricted their range.

Now with introduced grasses fires burn hotter, in areas where they never used to and are more frequent. However, up in the escarpemts fires are still starved of fuel. My little hypothetical idea suggests that their range is getting smaller but still leaves room for them to survive albeit vulnerably.

I hope that made sense, my english has taken a turn for the worst living out in a community.

 

[saratoga]

I personally don't think they are under any immediate threat of extinction and i think the only real threat they have is fire (and more locally poaching). They have a very small range but within that range they can be found in all of the different environments, except for flood plains. To me that begs the question why aren't they more wide spread over similar habitats throughout the north.

I think its very dangerous to assume there is no immediate threat to them, for all we know they may have gone already! I would assume the opposite, that they are in real trouble and then hope for the best. Fire is indeed a big threat; changing fire regimes and hence changing plant communites could have a big impact on their prey. Mammal communities in the Top End have plummeted in the last 15 years or so and no one really understands why. On top of this we now have the Cane Toads and that may just be the thing to tip them over the edge. The toads have certainly had an impact on the abundance of Water Pythons(-), Olive Pythons(-) and Black Headed Pythons(+). Poaching may have an impact at easily accessible sites but much of their habitat remains well away from these areas.

They have never been common; I have seen only 2 (maybe 3), however a good friend who used to explore the escarpment a lot has seen 26 of them which must be close to a record. From my understanding all sightings have been in the escarpment country, its outliers and the immediate surrounds; fringing woodlands, riparian areas and monsoon forests ..... you don't really find them in different habitats. Whilst neither he or I spend much time in their habitat anymore, we don't hear of any sightings by others either.

There is definately good reason to be very concerned about the future of these snakes!

Does anyone know when the last wild one was seen?

 

[waruikazi]

I think its very dangerous to assume there is no immediate threat to them, for all we know they may have gone already! I would assume the opposite, that they are in real trouble and then hope for the best. Fire is indeed a big threat; changing fire regimes and hence changing plant communites could have a big impact on their prey. Mammal communities in the Top End have plummeted in the last 15 years or so and no one really understands why. On top of this we now have the Cane Toads and that may just be the thing to tip them over the edge. The toads have certainly had an impact on the abundance of Water Pythons(-), Olive Pythons(-) and Black Headed Pythons(+). Poaching may have an impact at easily accessible sites but much of their habitat remains well away from these areas.

They have never been common; I have seen only 2 (maybe 3), however a good friend who used to explore the escarpment a lot has seen 26 of them which must be close to a record. From my understanding all sightings have been in the escarpment country, its outliers and the immediate surrounds; fringing woodlands, riparian areas and monsoon forests ..... you don't really find them in different habitats. Whilst neither he or I spend much time in their habitat anymore, we don't hear of any sightings by others either.

There is definately good reason to be very concerned about the future of these snakes!

Does anyone know when the last wild one was seen?

They definately are not extinct. I know of atleast one 100% sighting this year. I agree with you absolutely that they could be on the brink of extinction but we don't know for sure.

I'll say more in a minute...

 

[Jungle_Freak]

I think they are rare and endangered .
And something should be done fast.
Especially since the toads have arrived .
There are just too many questions that remain unanswered ,,
It would be a different story if our main zoos already had established populations etc .
But unfortunately this is not the case.

 

[waruikazi]

I think its very dangerous to assume there is no immediate threat to them, for all we know they may have gone already! I know of one sighting from this year and several reliable sightings in recent years. I would assume the opposite, that they are in real trouble and then hope for the best. I agree that this is the best attitude to have toward biodiversity in general and it is the attitude i have. However, and i will qualify this statement by saying that I am by no means an expert, my personal opinion is that they are not going to go extinct tomorrow. Fire is indeed a big threat; changing fire regimes and hence changing plant communites could have a big impact on their prey. Mammal communities in the Top End have plummeted in the last 15 years or so and no one really understands why. On top of this we now have the Cane Toads and that may just be the thing to tip them over the edge. I get up into the escarpment country as often as i can, i am yet to see a toad atop the sandstone massifs. I have only seen them in areas that flood and have streams, not waterfalls coming from them. I'm not saying they don't have an impact but i don't think they are having a direct impact. The toads have certainly had an impact on the abundance of Water Pythons(-), Olive Pythons(-) and Black Headed Pythons(+). Poaching may have an impact at easily accessible sites but much of their habitat remains well away from these areas. Agreed, like what i said i think poaching and roadkills have a local effect on populations.

They have never been common; I have seen only 2 (maybe 3), however a good friend who used to explore the escarpment a lot has seen 26 of them which must be close to a record. I would looooooooove to see some pictures! Infact check your PM box. From my understanding all sightings have been in the escarpment country, its outliers and the immediate surrounds; fringing woodlands, riparian areas and monsoon forests ..... you don't really find them in different habitats. That's what i meant, like i said living in a community and working with children and adults that don't speak english has really put the smack down on my english lol. Whilst neither he or I spend much time in their habitat anymore, we don't hear of any sightings by others either.

There is definately good reason to be very concerned about the future of these snakes!

Does anyone know when the last wild one was seen? Yes

Check your inbox.

 

[waruikazi]

I think they are rare and endangered .
And something should be done fast.
Especially since the toads have arrived .
There are just too many questions that remain unanswered ,,
It would be a different story if our main zoos already had established populations etc .
But unfortunately this is not the case.

It may be the case that they could be listed as endangered but right now they are not. Right now they are listed as vunerable in the NT because it is estimated that the total population is no more than 10 000 mature animals, there has been an inferred decline in their numbers and no sub-population contains anymore than 1000 mature animals.

Looking into my crystal ball again, i think part of this classification is because there is very little data on the animals and like Greg has said it is better to assume the worst.

 

[Jungle_Freak]

We should start a save the oenpelli python campain and fund etc .
Or try too ?

 

[hornet]

wow those childreni are gorgeous, is this form in captivity at all?

 

[waruikazi]

We should start a save the oenpelli python campain and fund etc .
Or try too ?

Better than that and far cheaper would be to compile all the data that amateur herpers (and twitchers, botanists and the mammal people for that matter) have on the animals and their habitat. That would go a long way to painting a clearer picture on the well being of Nawarran and the West Arnhem Plateu. But the problem i can see with that idea is it getting into the hands of the poachers.

 

[waruikazi]

wow those childreni are gorgeous, is this form in captivity at all?

I'm sure they are in captivity somwhere, we don't need permits for childrens up here. They are pretty varied in colour and pattern though, they don't all look the one i found.