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Aspidites ramsayi beginner questions

razorbill

New Member
Hello!

I am a novice keeper and will be getting a hatchling Woma next month. Have tried to review as much information as I could independently before asking, but still have a few questions:

Brumation/feeding/temperature - In SImon Stone's care guide that was recommended on here he wrote that, for 5 of the coldest months of the year (when NT temps are below 20c), he does not feed his Woma pythons. He also does not provide any heating at night in general. Is this recommended still. I live in Scotland so, if I was to not use night time heating, it would fall below 20c about 5-6 months of the year. Also would I wait for their 2nd year to implement this or later? The clutch literally just hatched yesterday so that would be either this coming winter in around 10 months or winter 2022. Would you always provide heating to a hatchling/juvinile to keep them above 20c?

Housing - I initially plan to have the hatchling in a tub to acclimate it before considering a perminant enclosure. Would it be best to size up tubs as they grow and then transfer them to an adult wooden enclosure(either 4x2x2 or 6x2x2ft) with uvb/overhead heating or put them in their adult enclosure right away after they are comfortable/start consistantly eating? For adult enclosures do most go for glass or wooden? Would consider PVC, but it is way more expensive and I am not sure their humidity requirements call for it.

Feeding - Should I go straight to fuzzies or start them off with pinkies?

Enrichment - Is there any enclosure enrichment people have found their woma's particularly engage with/'enjoy'?

Humidity - the ambient humidity in my home is around 55%. Would that be acceptable?

Thanks!

For reference these are the sources I have looked at so far:
https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0277/9175/3268/files/woma_hr.pdf?389


 

Sdaji

Almost Legendary
APS Veteran
Trusted Seller
'Below 20' could be anything from 19 down to zero Kelvin. As long as it's not too much below 20, don't heat at night in winter for adults. For hatchlings it's up to you and how quickly you want to grow them. Keep in mind that wild hatchling pythons, even of tropical species, can be found active in the low 20s.

'NT' is a huge place, it's as big as quite a few European countries put together and has different climates in different areas.

Never use UV for pythons. It's not helpful and it can be harmful in multiple ways. UV is one of the most badly dealt with topics in the reptile world, the myth largely propagated by herp goods sellers (they can make money by selling you UV lamps but not from not selling you UV lamps, so they tell you that you need them). Bright light and UV mean extreme danger to Womas, especially juveniles. They do what they can to avoid it, and in an enclosure it's not possible to get as far away from it as it is when they can go deep down a sandy burrow or under a pile of boulders larger than your house. They're always going to be a few cm away from it in an enclosure.

It's generally best to give them an enclosure suited to their size. For hatchlings or snakes which aren't yet settled in I don't go longer than half the snake's body length. Once they're adults or established with you it's not such an issue and you can go larger if you want to, just keep an eye on how the snake feels (based on its behaviour, feeding, etc).

Feeding - you really should say if you mean rats or mice in a question like that, but either fuzzy mice or pink rats should be fine. This is more a question for the seller, you can ask what they've been using, but as a beginner, shooting for feeds around 10-20% of the snake's weight is generally good. Simon Stone used to say a lot of things about not using pink rats for Womas, I discussed this with him personally and found it very strange, but everyone I know who has used pink rats with Womas, myself included, has had no problems. People talk about strong preferences about this topic but as long as the size is right it's really neither here nor there.

Womas are pretty resilient with humidity but don't let it stay too low during sloughing. 55% inside the enclosure would often mean bad sloughs, but a snake and a water bowl inside an enclosure inevitably increases humidity whether you want it to or not. You always need to play around with this to get it right, but getting the right humidity generally means varying the amount of ventilation and size of the water bowl (or short term in a pinch, putting the water bowl at the warm end). If in doubt go more humid, but if it looks or feels wet you'll want it more dry. Measuring humidity is difficult because you'll have little areas of different humidity levels inside your enclosure, which will always be higher than the ambient humidity of the room the enclosure is in.
 

razorbill

New Member
'Below 20' could be anything from 19 down to zero Kelvin. As long as it's not too much below 20, don't heat at night in winter for adults. For hatchlings it's up to you and how quickly you want to grow them. Keep in mind that wild hatchling pythons, even of tropical species, can be found active in the low 20s.

'NT' is a huge place, it's as big as quite a few European countries put together and has different climates in different areas...
Thank you for the detailed reply. Didn't consider my use of acronym, meant 'night time' not Northern Territory!

Interesting about your point regarding UV. There are so many people online who state that every reptiles needs UV. Had never considered it could be detrimental. Note taken on enclosure size, was planning to do that anyways. My biggest concern with keeping a hatchling in a tub long term was a lack of UV and an overhead basking light, but if they don't prefer it/if it could possibly be harmful then waiting until they're an adult to put them in a viv is fine.

Feeding wise I had only considered mice. I will ask the breeder what they feed now and keep your advice about pink rats in consideration.

Was concerned about too high humidity. It's very wet here pretty much year round so humidity hovers around 50-70% in my house. Sounds like that should be okay then, and if it gets too high I can use a dehumidifier to lower the ambient.
 

Sdaji

Almost Legendary
APS Veteran
Trusted Seller
If you want to avoid being misinterpreted, avoid acronyms.

Womas get too big as adults to be feeding on mice. They'll happily eat them, they'll eat anything they can and try to eat anything they can't (water bowls, glass doors, chairs...) but you'll need a lot of mice to satisfy an adult Woma.

I wouldn't use basking lamps for Womas, they're nocturnal and do better with just floor heat. I made very elaborate enclosures for my first Womas (I spent about $25,000 on that group!) with various forms of heating but after a few years just had them in large plastic tubs (smaller than the original enclosures, about half the length of the snakes) with floor heat only because it worked better.

Using floor heat with a small water bowl at the cool end will keep the humidity low enough.
 

Licespray

Not so new Member
Mines around 2 years old now and loves quail and rat. Very active and interesting snake but large food drive. Great first snakes.

Had one bad shed after a heat wave (dropped humidity for sure) but did the bath soak and then just let her slither between our hands and all the stick skin came off easily. Seems to be an easy going snake.
 

Archer

New Member
I feed 4 quail to 1 rat for my womas. Was told early on that as their natural diet is primarily reptiles, that rats are too high in fat and could cause a liver issue.
Not sure if this is still accepted feeding wisdom though.
 

Sdaji

Almost Legendary
APS Veteran
Trusted Seller
I feed 4 quail to 1 rat for my womas. Was told early on that as their natural diet is primarily reptiles, that rats are too high in fat and could cause a liver issue.
Not sure if this is still accepted feeding wisdom though.

Who told you the relative fat contents of quails, rodents and reptiles? Quails are pretty fatty, not that it really matters. The important thing is not to keep the snake fat, which comes down to total calorie intake rather than the percentage of those calories being from fat (unless you were feeding your snake on a diet of refined animal fats, which amusingly, used to be quite popular!).

The reptile world, as with all animal spheres, has some bizarre rumours and myths. Blindly and unthinkingly following hearsay is far more popular than using critical thinking.
 

Archer

New Member
When i started, womas were still R2 in nsw, and i saw some hideously overstuffed womas. A vet at the time told me the feeding thing, however i have always tried to not overfeed any of my snakes anyway. The most important thing in feeding (i think) is good quality prey items, and not overfeeding.
Apologies if my post was taken as a "correct" feeding regime, as this was not my intent, hence querying if it was still what people were being told about feeding womas
 

Sdaji

Almost Legendary
APS Veteran
Trusted Seller
When i started, womas were still R2 in nsw, and i saw some hideously overstuffed womas. A vet at the time told me the feeding thing, however i have always tried to not overfeed any of my snakes anyway. The most important thing in feeding (i think) is good quality prey items, and not overfeeding.
Apologies if my post was taken as a "correct" feeding regime, as this was not my intent, hence querying if it was still what people were being told about feeding womas

I was commenting on the myth and the community as a whole, not you personally. My intention was primarily to point out that 'conventional wisdom' in our game is very often absolute garbage based on some random thought some random person had decades earlier, and to encourage people to take everything with a grain of salt and use their own judgement and common sense.
 

Zer0tonin

Not so new Member
Never use UV for pythons. It's not helpful and it can be harmful in multiple ways. UV is one of the most badly dealt with topics in the reptile world, the myth largely propagated by herp goods sellers (they can make money by selling you UV lamps but not from not selling you UV lamps, so they tell you that you need them). Bright light and UV mean extreme danger to Womas, especially juveniles. They do what they can to avoid it, and in an enclosure it's not possible to get as far away from it as it is when they can go deep down a sandy burrow or under a pile of boulders larger than your house. They're always going to be a few cm away from it in an enclosure.
Sdaji can you please explain this further? What evidence is there that UV light is harmful to pythons? Even nocturnal reptiles like pythons, even woma’s come out during the day to bask and warm up even if it’s in the early morning or late afternoon, and in doing so get a lot of UV and infrared light. This is completely natural. It is necessary to absorb UV (even for us humans) through your skin to produce vitamin D3 to absorb calcium. Are you saying they don’t need to absorb calcium, or they have an alternative method of breaking it down?

Okay, even if I grant the premise that UV is not necessary for nocturnal snakes like pythons, I see no evidence to show that it is somehow detrimental. Taken to the logical extreme this means that the sun is bad for reptiles, yes? I am genuinely curious as to how you came to this position, as I have pythons, including a woma, and I am always looking to improve and advance their care. None of them (especially my bredli who seems to thrive on it) seem shy to UV light and seem to actively bask in it during the day.
 

Sdaji

Almost Legendary
APS Veteran
Trusted Seller
Sdaji can you please explain this further? What evidence is there that UV light is harmful to pythons? Even nocturnal reptiles like pythons, even woma’s come out during the day to bask and warm up even if it’s in the early morning or late afternoon, and in doing so get a lot of UV and infrared light. This is completely natural. It is necessary to absorb UV (even for us humans) through your skin to produce vitamin D3 to absorb calcium. Are you saying they don’t need to absorb calcium, or they have an alternative method of breaking it down?

Okay, even if I grant the premise that UV is not necessary for nocturnal snakes like pythons, I see no evidence to show that it is somehow detrimental. Taken to the logical extreme this means that the sun is bad for reptiles, yes? I am genuinely curious as to how you came to this position, as I have pythons, including a woma, and I am always looking to improve and advance their care. None of them (especially my bredli who seems to thrive on it) seem shy to UV light and seem to actively bask in it during the day.

They have the option of getting a lot further away from it in the wild than if they're forced to live within a few cm of a UV lamp all day every day rather than deep in a burrow. If you were forced into a similar situation and you didn't have eyelids (as a snake doesn't) you'd end up with skin cancer and eye damage and you have the same ability to access UV that a snake does.

There are plenty of examples of eye damage in reptiles from artificial UV. There are some cases of skin damage. There are countless examples of behavioural issues such as stress and fear causing them not to eat, but commencing feeding when the UV lamp was removed.

Yes, absolutely, they can absorb calicum better than we can, in part because they literally eat an entire skeleton with literally every meal, but given that they're nocturnal it makes sense that they'd be equipped not to need UV. Many snakes live their entire lives in caves etc. The vast, vast, vast majority of captive snakes never see UV. My oldest snake will have her 20th birth (hatch) day this year and she has never been given UV. She's a python, in excellent health, and is the largest individual of her species I've ever seen.

Vitamin D3 and calcium are very interesting and worth studying properly, not just thinking you know about because you read something put out by a pet chain trying to sell UV lamps.
 

Zer0tonin

Not so new Member
They have the option of getting a lot further away from it in the wild than if they're forced to live within a few cm of a UV lamp all day every day rather than deep in a burrow. If you were forced into a similar situation and you didn't have eyelids (as a snake doesn't) you'd end up with skin cancer and eye damage and you have the same ability to access UV that a snake does.

There are plenty of examples of eye damage in reptiles from artificial UV. There are some cases of skin damage. There are countless examples of behavioural issues such as stress and fear causing them not to eat, but commencing feeding when the UV lamp was removed.

Yes, absolutely, they can absorb calicum better than we can, in part because they literally eat an entire skeleton with literally every meal, but given that they're nocturnal it makes sense that they'd be equipped not to need UV. Many snakes live their entire lives in caves etc. The vast, vast, vast majority of captive snakes never see UV. My oldest snake will have her 20th birth (hatch) day this year and she has never been given UV. She's a python, in excellent health, and is the largest individual of her species I've ever seen.

Vitamin D3 and calcium are very interesting and worth studying properly, not just thinking you know about because you read something put out by a pet chain trying to sell UV lamps.
I’m just trying to understand where you got the information from because I have never heard that it can be detrimental and if it is, I will stop using it. I didn’t read any information coming out of a pet store about the UVB, I initially learned about its importance from other reptile owners who don’t have a vested interest. In fact my mate who is a keeper working at the Australian Reptile Park specifically pointed out the uvb in my tanks and said it was good that I have it as a lot of reptile owners neglect such important things. I also couldn’t find any information on eye damage or stress due to UVB on google or google scholar, only ones that supported the idea of even nocturnal animals needing UVB. Could you please cite a study that shows otherwise?

My worry is that information like this comes from breeders who do have a vested interest in not providing essential things like UVB light in order to cut down on costs. You’re the first person I’ve heard mentioning the negative effects.
 

Sdaji

Almost Legendary
APS Veteran
Trusted Seller
I’m just trying to understand where you got the information from because I have never heard that it can be detrimental and if it is, I will stop using it. I didn’t read any information coming out of a pet store about the UVB, I initially learned about its importance from other reptile owners who don’t have a vested interest.

Those people got it from those with the vested interests.


In fact my mate who is a keeper working at the Australian Reptile Park specifically pointed out the uvb in my tanks and said it was good that I have it as a lot of reptile owners neglect such important things.

I've been behind the scenes at the Australian Reptile Park multiple times. They don't provide UV for their snakes. (to be clear, this is not criticism)

I also couldn’t find any information on eye damage or stress due to UVB on google or google scholar, only ones that supported the idea of even nocturnal animals needing UVB. Could you please cite a study that shows otherwise?


No. I've been keeping and breeding reptiles for over 25 years, I've completely lost track of how many thousands of snakes I've produced, I have friends in multiple continents who have produced far more than I have. Literally none of them (the ones with a reasonable number of snakes and years of experience) use UV. None of them has had a peer-reviewed article on the subject, but that doesn't dismiss their collective thousands of years of experience keeping snakes.

The people I see having problems with UV on snakes are almost all newbies with one of their first snakes. Funnily enough, none of them have published peer-reviewed articles on the topic either.

To write a peer-reviewed article on this topic would be impossible in Australia and most western countries because even if for some reason you wanted to, you'd never get ethics approval. Some things must be learned from the real world where real things happen.

My worry is that information like this comes from breeders who do have a vested interest in not providing essential things like UVB light in order to cut down on costs. You’re the first person I’ve heard mentioning the negative effects.


Stick around and pay attention, I may be the first but won't be the last. Look at what folks like those at the Australian Reptile Park actually do (do they even have UV on their snakes on public display?). When literally the only people doing something are newbies and literally none of the highly experienced people who have been doing it for decades are doing something, that in itself should say enough.
[/QUOTE]
 

WizardFromAus-

Active Member
Those people got it from those with the vested interests.




I've been behind the scenes at the Australian Reptile Park multiple times. They don't provide UV for their snakes. (to be clear, this is not criticism)




No. I've been keeping and breeding reptiles for over 25 years, I've completely lost track of how many thousands of snakes I've produced, I have friends in multiple continents who have produced far more than I have. Literally none of them (the ones with a reasonable number of snakes and years of experience) use UV. None of them has had a peer-reviewed article on the subject, but that doesn't dismiss their collective thousands of years of experience keeping snakes.

The people I see having problems with UV on snakes are almost all newbies with one of their first snakes. Funnily enough, none of them have published peer-reviewed articles on the topic either.

To write a peer-reviewed article on this topic would be impossible in Australia and most western countries because even if for some reason you wanted to, you'd never get ethics approval. Some things must be learned from the real world where real things happen.




Stick around and pay attention, I may be the first but won't be the last. Look at what folks like those at the Australian Reptile Park actually do (do they even have UV on their snakes on public display?). When literally the only people doing something are newbies and literally none of the highly experienced people who have been doing it for decades are doing something, that in itself should say enough.
[/QUOTE]
I always enjoy reading what you have to say. I also dont use any UV.
The most i have done is just a CHE for my darwin. And that was only through winter during the day.
 

Zer0tonin

Not so new Member
Stick around and pay attention, I may be the first but won't be the last. Look at what folks like those at the Australian Reptile Park actually do (do they even have UV on their snakes on public display?). When literally the only people doing something are newbies and literally none of the highly experienced people who have been doing it for decades are doing something, that in itself should say enough.
Before we go off the rails about who is the most experienced reptile keeper here I just want to say, I'm just asking questions because it seems counter intuitive to me and I don't accept anything on face value. I'm not attacking your position, just questioning it. To be clear I am not saying it is absolutely necessary, obviously it is more than possible to keep reptiles without UVB, I am just asking about the harmful component that you mentioned, to quote you directly, "Never use UV for pythons".

Okay so, would you say it is an issue of dosage/too much of a good thing can be bad? For example, keepers putting too powerful a light in too small of an enclosure? If the light was weaker or the enclosure was bigger, would that mitigate the problems that you mentioned? From the research that I've done I know nocturnal reptiles utilise UV to produce D3 much more efficiently than diurnal reptiles, so they don't need as much, but they do still need it. What about cutting down the hours that the lamp is on, or providing more hides and dark spaces to escape bright light, or to perform cryptic basking? As nocturnal reptiles tend to hide most of the day, any only come out occasionally to bask, they would only be receiving UV while basking. And if providing none at all, would it be a good idea to take them out into the sun once a week to get what they are missing?

Or is it just all bad, and any nocturnals should just get zero UV exposure, period?

In your 25 years in breeding and keeping have you had many, if any, instances of metabolic bone disease?
 

Sdaji

Almost Legendary
APS Veteran
Trusted Seller
Before we go off the rails about who is the most experienced reptile keeper here I just want to say, I'm just asking questions because it seems counter intuitive to me and I don't accept anything on face value.

Except for all the things you clearly do take at face value, such as what you heard about UV and are arguing passionately about here. Right.

I'm not attacking your position, just questioning it.

Tomayto tomahto. Just own what you're doing.

To be clear I am not saying it is absolutely necessary, obviously it is more than possible to keep reptiles without UVB,

It's amusing that you say this as we'll see shortly...

Okay so, would you say it is an issue of dosage/too much of a good thing can be bad?

No. It's that too much of an unnecessary thing can be bad. Low enough won't hurt. None will obviously not hurt.

For example, keepers putting too powerful a light in too small of an enclosure? If the light was weaker or the enclosure was bigger, would that mitigate the problems that you mentioned?

I'd have thought it went without saying that too much would be harmful and little enough wouldn't, but it seems I gave you too much credit.

From the research that I've done I know nocturnal reptiles utilise UV to produce D3 much more efficiently than diurnal reptiles, so they don't need as much, but they do still need it.

It's comical that you say this after earlier saying they don't need it.

What about cutting down the hours that the lamp is on, or providing more hides and dark spaces to escape bright light, or to perform cryptic basking? As nocturnal reptiles tend to hide most of the day, any only come out occasionally to bask, they would only be receiving UV while basking. And if providing none at all, would it be a good idea to take them out into the sun once a week to get what they are missing?


Little enough won't hurt, surely that's self evident. None is ideal. Little enough won't hurt. Are we clear yet?

Or is it just all bad, and any nocturnals should just get zero UV exposure, period?

I wouldn't stop at nocturnals. I wouldn't give it to any snakes. It's not just me, it's literally more than 99% of all captive snakes, including those in zoos etc, including the one you mentioned, which don't have it. It's not like I'm saying something crazy and out there, I'm literally just advocating what virtually everyone other than a few newbies do.

In your 25 years in breeding and keeping have you had many, if any, instances of metabolic bone disease?

In snakes, no. It's virtually non existent in snakes, despite as I said, virtually all snakes other than those held by a few newbies being kept through their whole lives without UV. My oldest snake will celebrate her 20th birthday this year. Or hatch day. Well, I'll celebrate it for her anyway. She's never seen a UV lamp, always kept indoors, etc etc.

In lizards, yes, which I largely put down to diet. Back in the 80s and 90s I had issues with this problem. Information was extremely difficult to access back then, I was a young fella, most people had never heard of or even used the internet and all we had available were a few books at the local library, none of which mentioned UV. I experimented with everything you could think of and a lot you probably wouldn't if you didn't live through that time, including UV lights, and nothing solved the problem. Eventually I got on to calcium and multivitamin supplements, which entirely solved the problem immediately, and from there it was smooth sailing. After making this discovery I understood why some lizards previously had been fine and others hadn't, and it came down to diet. For example, things kept entirely on diets of captive insects would almost inevitably get the disorder, while those fed a range of things including whole rodents were reliably fine. I experimented with a range of lizards, mainly skinks, geckoes and monitors of several species. Over many years (more than a decade) I never found UV to do anything, but calcium and multivitamin powder always prevented the issue, without a single exception even with many individuals of many species over consecutive generations without UV (after those years of heavily experimenting I still continued to keep and breed a wide range of lizards without UV, and never again had a case of MBD).

I've studied this in the context of human nutrition too, I was quite excited when we covered it in my studies at university, we went into more detail than I'd learned through my personal experimentation and I wished I'd learned at least those basics before going through all those years of issues with my reptiles.

Last year it was again an issue in the spotlight because vitamin D3 was said to be relevant to the CCP virus, which caused me to look into it in a human context (not my own research, just doing a lot of reading about what others were working on).

You may find it interesting that when reptiles are suffering from low calcium (which can be caused by low levels of vitamin D3), they usually will have poorly-calcified eggs before suffering from serious MBD (keeping in mind that low vitamin D3 levels are far from the only possible cause of bad eggs). Despite virtually every single captive-bred snake in the world kept by large breeders living its whole life without UV, not even poorly-calcified eggs is a particularly common problem in captive snakes, and certainly not above the rate you'd expect from unrelated causes, so even subcritical indicators like this show that captive snakes have no issues in this regard.
[/QUOTE]
 

Zer0tonin

Not so new Member
Except for all the things you clearly do take at face value, such as what you heard about UV and are arguing passionately about here. Right.
Tomayto tomahto. Just own what you're doing.
Exactly what is it you think I've been passionately arguing for? All I've done so far is ask you questions. Getting defensive about this really undermines the conversation and you clearly aren't interested in being rational or civil. Maybe I'm ignorant, and maybe you're right. All I know for sure is that being a dick to people who don't know what you know when they ask questions, is going to drive people off this forum. I posted my initial comment out of genuine interest, with no interest of anything getting heated.

That said, time to attack your position.

I said, I've not heard before that it's harmful to use UVB for pythons, do you have anything that backs that up? To which you only cited your own experience, and the current practices of other keepers. This really doesn't do a lot for me, as some breeders completely mistreat their animals. Argumentum ad populum. Just because a lot of people have the same idea, doesn't mean it is the correct one.

It's amusing that you say this as we'll see shortly...
It's comical that you say this after earlier saying they don't need it.
"obviously it is more than possible to keep reptiles without UVB"
"nocturnal reptiles utilise UV to produce D3 much more efficiently than diurnal reptiles, so they don't need as much, but they do still need it"
This is a blatant strawman. I said it is possible to keep reptiles without UVB, but they still need some. Those two statements are in no way mutually exclusive.

It's not just me, it's literally more than 99% of all captive snakes, including those in zoos etc
Again I ask, HOW DO YOU KNOW? (Which is the whole point of what I've been asking by the way.) Have you taken a study of reptile keepers? Have you surveyed all zoos? All you're doing is asserting **** without anything solid to back it up. Maybe 99% of all captive snakes would benefit from some UVB. As I said before, just because 99% of people believe or do something does not make it correct. You said studies on this are somehow unethical, even though I've spent the last few days reading studies about how UV effects D3 levels in reptiles. Cite me something for any of this, a study, an article, documented instances of harm caused by a UV bulb, an informational video by someone with credentials. Your only credentials so far seem to be that you've successfully kept reptile for 25 years. Am I really supposed to trust some goober on a forum who just asserts information and gets defensive when questioned about it? I'll gladly accept your wisdom if you've got something other than your personal experience to back it up, because my interest is in advancing the care of my reptiles. I'm not interested in clinging to notions even when they are legitimately questioned, and you only do the reptile hobby a disservice by doing so. Civil discussion about these topics is what advances the hobby, and what I'd hoped to get out of this forum.

And just for ****s and gigs I thought I'd link to this study by the American Journal of Veterinary research:
D3 in snakes that were provided with supplemental lighting differed significantly from the value in control snakes.
Because snakes are carnivores, the general assumption among herpetoculturists and veterinarians was that these animals also derived vitamin D from their diet and that UVB radiation–induced synthesis was likely of no importance. The findings of the present study suggest otherwise. In the present study, plasma 25-hydroxyvitamin D3 concentration significantly increased in snakes that were exposed to supplemental lighting during a 4-week period, whereas control snakes that were not exposed failed to develop any change in plasma 25-hydroxyvitamin D3 concentration.
This is just one study, and doesn't have any bearing on the harm UVB can have when used improperly, but you've failed to show me anything. Also, these are diurnal snakes, and this is not necessarily applicable to nocturnal snakes, but it CLEARLY shows the importance of UV light on the production of D3. Snakes do not get the majority of their D3 from dietary intake, they get it from the sun when they bask, and this is not even close to the only study I've read on the topic, and all it took to find was a basic google search. However, I am also not trying to suggest you are mistreating your snakes by not providing them with UVB, it sounds like you've raised some wonderful animals, but hopefully this might make you reconsider the benefits they might get out of some properly utilised lighting. After all we just want what is best for our reptiles.

Either way, I'm done discussing it with you if you aren't interested in keeping things civil.
 

Sdaji

Almost Legendary
APS Veteran
Trusted Seller
Didn't ready past the first couple of lines. Have a great day :)
 

Jakma94

New Member
Hey I have a question is it possible to get axanthic woma pythons I know you can get axanthic black heads so why not womas?
 
Hey I have a question is it possible to get axanthic woma pythons I know you can get axanthic black heads so why not womas?
Is it possible? Yes. Has it been done yet? Possibly. The difference is that the Ax BHPs have been doing the rounds for quite some time, if someone has cracked an Ax Woma they are keeping it closer to their chest I would image.
 
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