aussie native gtps

[NickM]

There is not enough genetic difference between them to tell them apart. Both the Merauke and Australian forms of viridis are distinct from all other populations of GTP. The close proximity is the likley reason. The most likley scenario is that the Australian populations arre merely the last remnant of what was a much larger distribution in the past.

Climate change since the last glacial maximum , just 18,000BP has radically alterd the geography of the region as well as the ranges of the species that inhabit the area.

Since the land bridge between New Guinea and Australia became submerged, Parts of Australia have become more arid ,decreasing viridis habitat.

At the same time southern New Guinea seems to have become more wet, there are now only small fragmentary patches of savanah left along the southern coast. These are the only areas where species like carpets, frillies, and blue tongues are found.

This map shows the Sehaul Shelf just 18,000 years ago and illustrates this perfectly.

 

[ravensgait]

Is this an Iron Mountain or a Merauke ?

Though Meraukes still go for a little more than the average Farmed baby they are dirt cheepiny comparison to what they go for over there. They look alike and can't be distinguished through testing , well as far as I know anyway.

Just as IJs and Darwin's can't be distinguished from each other these guys are to close to call.. Randy

 

[snakes01]

someone is selling this one on herp trader and says that it is a native aussie one

 

[flavirufus]

GTPs from the population around Merauke , Irian Jaya are indistinguishable from Aussie green trees, both in appearance and at the genetic level.

Hi Nick,
Your statements are mostly correct, except that there is some difference between the Australian and Merauke populations at the genetic level. Its just that the resolution is not very good with the current data and techniques that are available. If you were to genotype a Merauke animal, it would come out as 'probably Merauke', whereas an Australian would come out as 'probably Australian'. They are certainly very closely related, though, and do form a bit of a sub-set within the southern GTP species.
Regards,
Matt

 

[Aslan]

someone is selling this one on herp trader and says that it is a native aussie one

...the issue is the proof that it is an Aussie animal...

 

[NickM]

Thats what I meant. I in no way want to cast doubt on anyones claims of authenticity for their Ausssie GTPs, I know nothing about them and would not want to leave that impression.

Just wanted to point out that thepossibility exists.

For the record I do work with the Merauke form and They are among my favorite GTPs, all that dealt with have had great personalities and in the case of captive bred animals have proven to be very hardy animals.

Nick

 

[bigguy]

You can not tell from the pic attached to the ad. You cannot see the markings on the back at any point of the pic. From the pic it appears it has no dorcile spotting, and if that is the case it is not a native GTP.

Meraukes GTP have very similar colour and markings to Aussie species, but normally have more continuous spotting down the dorcile line, and a slightly darker green background.

 

[junglepython2]

If your interested check out this article, it basically supports what NickM and Flavirufus said.

Phylogeographic analysis of the green python, Morelia viridis, reveals cryptic diversity
Lesley H. Rawlingsa, b and Stephen C. Donnellan

The other thing is that from what I can gather most of the so called DNA testing is mDNA which is only carried through the maternal side. If this is the case even a hybrid mothered by a native GTP but fathered by a totally different species would still come back as a pure aussie GTP from mDNA testing.

Can anyone shed any light on the DNA they are using to proove the 'pure' aussie gtp's?

 

[craftsman]

Ausie GTPs

Interesting to read other people's opinions. By the way, BIGGUY, I managed to obtain copies of 5 permits issued by the QPWS to different individuals (I was one of them) in the mid 80s to collect GTPs at Iron Range, so it wasn't just progeny of Gow's animals that ended up on the market.

Why would anyone want to buy GTPs straight from the egg? I can sell you established, feeding, 5 months-old juveniles with 100% guarantee to be native.

 

[snakeitup]

any chance you can post some pics of your stock craftsman?
Cheers, James

 

[craftsman]

GTPs

Hi James, go to Herp Trader and you will find photos of my animal(S) there - look for Ausie native ...
I am very reluctant to send pictures or detailed info - there have been too many tyre kickers and even few idiots just wasting my time ... I trust you understand.

 

[snakeitup]

No worries mate, Cheers

 

[Aslan]

Craftsman - It is definately great news to the hobby to know that there are more lines of pure Australian GTPs around - but the issue of proof remains the same...

How do you guarantee their bloodline...?

 

[Retic]

It really is no different to buying a pure locale Jungle or Diamond, you HAVE to take the word of the breeder as there really can be no guarantee. A persons reputation is built on their word, a genuine breeder would have no reason to lie.

 

[craftsman]

GTPs

that is true to the point. The origin of females can be conclusively determined by mitochondrial DNA profiling but the males hang in limbo.
I know that my stock is genuine, I wouldn't advertise it as such otherwise. I will be around breeding native GTPs next year, the year after and in 5 or 10 years time. Why would I want to tarnish my name by offering mongrels as natives?

 

[JasonL]

Ryan - That is the issue - how can they be guaranteed..?

because the breeder will tell you of course!

 

[JasonL]

Bugger spending the extra getting Aussie ones, just get cheapies, their all just green carpets?

 

[pugsly]

Ditto Jason, whats the big deal, the Aussie ones have a few white spots down the back, ooooo thats worth the extra $ ..

 

[spilota_variegata]

What is the big deal about Aussie GTPs? I personally find some of the imports to be much better looking snakes. Sure there are some good looking Aussies around but I feel this "genuine Australian GTP" label is just a marketing ploy to try to raise the price of local stock and reduce the price of the designer animals. I don't think you're going to find a nice calico Australian GTP anywhere.

 

[NickM]

Aussie GTPs along witht he Mearkes are likley at some point to be a seperate taxon, making all the "designer" GTPs hybrids.

Another thing that US breeders rarely will talk about is that the vast majority of "designer" GTPs are predominantly green as adults.

Most of the pictures you see in magazines and ont he internet are taken when the animals are still changing color, the "calico" animals are a prefect example. Just ask someone to show you a picture of a 5-7 year old "calico" you wont find one.

The designer mutts have a prolonged and more complicated color change, thats all, and many breeders simply stop taking pics when the animals mature.

One dead giveaway is to look at the eye color. The vast majority of "extreme" mutt GTPs are red-neonates, and they have reddish eyes. the eye color remains untill they are sub-adults but changes to the normal color when they are mature. Occasionally some poeple will get young males to breed and you do see the occasional picture of an animal with juvenile eye color breeding.

Look closely at the eyes of all these "desinger" GTPs and you will see that most are still the juvenile color.

This is all a bit dis-ingenous. The GTPs community here is not particularily honest with regard to several issues.

They present these "desingers" as if they were predictably inheritable, and these appearances are not. Most of the people who spend a great deal of money on these animals as neonates end up with predominantly green snakes.

I posted a thread to the large GTP forum some time ago and simply asked for pics of "extreme" adults, at least 5 years old or older. Excluding WC animals the thread received virtually no responses.

Another thing to consider is that virtually every GTP you see prodcued here are hybrids and crosses. Its only a matter of time before Viridis is broken up into multiple forms at either the species or sub-species level,
There is a ton of propaganda surrounding this species. And its a chore to sort through it to find the truth.

Nick