axolotls

[cris]

Also , I'm keen to hear from anyone who has recently seen Newts for Sale , either the European or Japanese or ? , that I used to breed as well , but haven't been able to see any of late .

They are illegal now.

 

[timthevet]

Check this website out: http://www.axolotl.org/tiger_salamander.htm
Sounds like hormonal treatment can work if done before maturity. If done after maturity then it seems to kill them. Would want to know the right dose of hormones though cos an overdose could also kill them.

 

[Tatelina]

my brother has had them before heaps. and they all die of fungal diseasese.

You're the only person to say that. interesting.. well to me anyway.


I haven't seen any axolotls for sale in Sydney for a few years now.

 

[Timotei]

Wow that is fascinating! I never knew axolotls were the pre-stage to salamanders. Here in Perth, my local pet store sells axys for $25 each, mite give metamorphosis a go these hols!

 

[Veredus]

Wow that is fascinating! I never knew axolotls were the pre-stage to salamanders. Here in Perth, my local pet store sells axys for $25 each, mite give metamorphosis a go these hols!

They aren't, axolotls are a specific species of salamander that has evolved so that they are sexually mature during the final phases of their larval stage but not all larval salamanders are axolotls.

 

[Timotei]

Hmm, well a bit of mixed opinion on this matter, could someone give me a taxonomic variant ? I would trust that above everything.

 

[Oxyuranus microlepid]

It wasnt that long ago i saw little black newts for sale in Petshops around the Central Coast, NSW.

Also a few with Turtles on display :shock:


Matt

how long ago andwhere?!?!:shock: :shock: :shock:

 

[Oxyuranus microlepid]

Ive done this back in about 1965 in Woonona a small town near Wollongong and got the ax's to morph to salamanders
From memory , First I got them to breed . Put a pair in a 2 foot aquarium with lots of weed.about 6 inches of water. lower the water about an inch a week to simulate a dry season. then when you are down to about 2" of water fill the tank to about 3/4 full rapidly and add big chunks of ice.
you are simulating the glacial floods which kick off them breeding in Mexico. it works .
they lay within days.
stringy eggs and slime bit like a canetoad. I removed most of the plants with eggs and left the adults in the tank and started to lower the water again for a second breeding round .
Then I wanted salamanders and put heaps of leaf litter in and just let the water evaporate.I cant remember the time frame but they stop eating and morph relatively quickly.

Hope this is of help

do they need basking spots,
water swimming areas,
heat? etc

 

[gaara]

mate you basically just set it up like you would for a tiger salamander. They dont need a partition of land and water, they are terrestrial. They only need a water dish to drink from. This also maintains humidity which they need. They need to be kept at a temperature of ideally 24 degrees C. They eat crickets, worms, etc. Live food only.

Tiger salamanders bury themselves into the soil but my morphed axie is lazy and just sits ontop of the soil, underneath a hide I gave him.

If you give them any kind of water dish they need to be able to climb out to save themselves from drowning. They may have been axie's at one point, but now they breath air!

They dont need "basking" areas as they dont really like light too much. Nor do they need heat as I mentioned earlier. They don't breed in captivity.

When creating their vivarium, use organic native soil, or something with a neutral PH, of about 7 to 7.6. Do not use peat or sphagnum moss as it is too acidic and will harm their skin.

change their water dish every 3 days, and change the soil every 2 months. You might want to add plants like ferns to the tank.

Every morning and every night get a water sprayer and "mist" the entire tank. The soil shouldn't be mud, but it shouldn't be dry either - you want a soft "crumbly" substrate.

Any more questions just pm me.

 

[jimbo]

they sell salamanders at amazing amazon - this is their trading post add. but whether they have any at the moment i do not know.
http://www.tradingpost.com.au/itemi...ing+amazon_state_9_stpg_1_subs_Pets+&+Horses_

 

[gaara]

those are morphed axolotls, but not real salamanders. If only!

 

[dingosarah]

isnt thyroxine a prescription only medication? how are all these people getting it?

 

[gaara]

most people (ie those that do not know vets) would just use the tablet form, and administer to the water.

 

[JandC_Reptiles]

I think its cruel to try & metamorph an animal thats meant to stay in its larval stage.
Especially when usually the results are a dead animal. I have avoided this thread up untill now because on the other Axey threads I was argued against for suggesting they do not morph (which they do not under normal circumstances). If they do by drug inducement I do not know as I have never been sadistic enough to find out. But from what I have heard & read apparently MANY do not morph at all, they die. Those that do morph may be a different species all together, or may not be. Even if they are infact axeys the metamorphing would be a survival reaction only, in which case it is a cruel act to put an animal close to death in order to make it evolve into something it's not. Sooooo, whether they can or not (when forced by man) isn't my argument, what is however is the fact they are not supposed to.

 

[gaara]

Yeah....And? I'm as against morphing as you are; and I've knocked back many pm's asking how to do it. I rescued my morph from a kid who bought it from a pet store. I know my [deleted] when it comes to axolotls (and most caudates), and knew I could provide a good home for my little guy. He's happy, despite being morphed.

Axolotls can morph naturally; but 99% don't as its not something they've evolved to need.

 

[JandC_Reptiles]

Axolotls can morph naturally; but 99% don't as its not something they've evolved to need.

Axolotyls will not morph naturally, they must be forced. Hence many die during the proceedure.
Many people say it is a case of too much inbreeding in captivity which has made the species remain in their larval stage, however they do not morph in their natural wild state either. As you said they have evolved to not needing to morph. Evolution is very slow taking many many years, where as man wants to re-evolve them back to their once natural state in a matter of days/weeks. In most cases it is impossible. And IMO it's just as cruel as taking away an Elapids venom glands

 

[Hetty]

About 3 or 4 years ago I went to Kellyville Pets, and they had what they told me were salamanders. I wanted to buy one but they said they were in really short supply and they couldn't get anymore, and the two they had were not for sale. I can't remember exactly what they looked like as it was a longish time ago, but I think they had stripes.

 

[Hetty]

Axolotyls will not morph naturally, they must be forced.
Many people say it is a case of too much inbreeding in captivity which has made the species remain in their larval stage, however they do not morph in their natural wild state either. As you said they have evolved to not needing to morph. Evolution is very slow taking many many years, where as man wants to re-evolve them back to their once natural state in a matter of days/weeks.

I didn't know they could morph before this thread, but it does seem like quite a cruel thing to do.

 

[gaara]

Axolotyls will not morph naturally, they must be forced. Hence many die during the proceedure.
Many people say it is a case of too much inbreeding in captivity which has made the species remain in their larval stage, however they do not morph in their natural wild state either. As you said they have evolved to not needing to morph. Evolution is very slow taking many many years, where as man wants to re-evolve them back to their once natural state in a matter of days/weeks. In most cases it is impossible. And IMO it's just as cruel as taking away an Elapids venom glands

lol for once JandC im gonna have to disagree with you - you're commenting in ignorance. Axolotls can morph naturally; its just very rarely occurs. Sometimes the natural surroundings trigger a metamorphosis; such as water drying up, etc. I've seen in person natural morphs; and they differ to "forced morphs". Forced morphs resemble tiger salamanders, where as natural morphs retain more of their original axolotl features. It is hypothesized that some axolotls carry the ability to morph because over a hundred years ago, in france, a tiger salamander (in larval form) was bred with an axolotl; thus creating the Golden yellow axolotls you see in many pet stores today. It is this recessive gene (this is a theory, albeit a logical theory) that many believe allows some axolotls to morph naturally, or by force.

I'm not saying its entirely natural; in that yes, forced morphing generally leads to death, hence why many people choose the strongest, healthiest axolotls (they lose 75% of their body mass during the procedure due to a disinterest in feeding over the months it takes).

Yes, it's cruel, and yes, if I met someone who did it for fun or money I'd give 'em what for, but I'm not about to be corrected on something I know to be true.

 

[JandC_Reptiles]

I am commenting on what I have heard & read. And if this is incorrect then I do appreciate other suggestions & opinions from yourself (I am open minded). Not arguing and hopefully not being ignorant on this subject. Although I do find scientific studies & published documents to be more creditable than the word of a forum member I do not know personally (no offence) but I will still listen to what you have to say. Even though your comments have contradicted themselves, you agree its cruel and that they are not meant to morph, yet you imply it is natural and some do so on their own accord.

AFAIK they do not morph in their natural envoirnment because there is no need to
(you pretty much agreed with this to a point but insist 1% of the population does) But imo dry seasons arn't a problem as far as I am aware, their natural waterways do not become a complete land mass. If that was an issue they would have never evolved to begin with and this contributes to both our theories that they do not need to morph in either wild populations or captive specimens.

There has been studies on the species in the wild that have formed the basis that they do not morph at all (again due to no need of morphing, hence there is so much writings about them being the only species to live their entire lives in larval stage).

In your words you also agree that many die during metamorphous. This to me suggests again that they are not meant to morph. Evolution was performed for a specific reason here and that is they can live their entire life in water without morphing.

I didn't say they can't morph naturally (as I do not know, I have never been to Mexico or seen wild ones) , what I said was that they won't.

Axolotyls will not morph naturally, they must be forced.

If you read that correctly you will see I am not implying it to be impossible, just stating that in order for it to happen there must be human intervention (as their native habitat is not under threat of drying up etc) and once again there is no reason for them to morph hence they have evolved into neoteny?