Bredli???

[longqi]

Is a Morelia Bredli a Carpet Python???

If it is a Carpet Python why doesnt it have Morelia Spilota Bredli as its scientific name??

One book says Morelia Spilota Bredli
But every other one just uses Morelia Bredli

If its not a Carpet Python; Why isnt it a Carpet Python??

 

[Marzzy]

Ask Jesus

 

[longqi]

Considering my location I might have more luck asking Mohammad or even Kali the Destroyer??

 

[Marzzy]

Lol possibly. What time is it in Bali ?

 

[dannydee]

"The elevation of Morelia bredli to the level of full species is well supported. In addition to its geographical isolation, the Centralian pythons differs dramatically in its scalation"

I have taken this from, "THE COMPLETE CARPET PYTHON: A Comprehensive Guide to the Natural History, Care, and Breeding of the Morelia spilota Complex by Nick Mutton and Justin Julander. It also goes on to say, "....these pythons have developed fine scalation in order to reduce moisture loss. This is a common adaptation found in many desert dwelling reptiles. As discussed above, this is also one of the major distinguishing characteristics that seperate M. bredli from the M. spilota complex."

I hope that helps.

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I should of added that the difference in scalation is on the head and dorsal scales at mid-body. The bredli has more.

 

[longqi]

So although Shaw has it as Morelia Spilota Bredli, it is no longer classified as a carpet python
It is now in a species of its own??

Will this give 'food for thought' to those who enjoy mixing and matching various carpets using the justification that
they are all just sub-species of Carpet Python??

its 12.50am

 

[dannydee]

In answer to your questions, yes and no.

It makes me quite sad how people mix and match snakes here in the UK. There was a time not that long ago, that I thought the bredli would not be used as much with all this fancy breeding but unfortunately it's becoming all to popular.

 

[CaptainRatbag]

Not trying to be a smarty pants, just writing an exerpt from the book 'Keeping and breeding Australian pythons' by Mike Swan (2007) www.mikeswanherpbooks.com.au

Page 237 by Greg Fyfe:

Start of quote.

Centralian Carpet Python
Morelia spilota bredli (Gow, 1981)

The centralian carpet python was discovered in the 1870's at Alice Springs, in the southern part of the Northern Territory of Australia. At the time it was concidered to be a desert form of the widespread carpet python morelia spilota variegata, with the reddish colour being appropriate camouflage for life in the 'red centre'. In 1981, Graham Gow described this python as a new species, python bredli, naming it after a fellow herpetologist and long time friend Joe Bredl of Renmark in South Australia. There is currently some disagreement between herpetologists as to the specific or sub-specific status of this snake, some regarding it as a regional sub-species of carpet python. I will be treating it as a sub-species of morelia spilota in this article, thus it becomes morelia spilota bredli.

End of quote.

Like I said Longqi, not trying to agree or disagree, just writing word for word what this particular book says, be it right or wrong. I guess it is fair to say that opinion is still divided..... either way..... awsome pythons

Hope that helps you out

 

[dannydee]

Hi CaptainRatbag,

I'm confused! It was Gow that discovered the difference in scalation, like you say in 1981. That's when it was made into a species of its own. Why then do you have it as Morelia spilota bredli (Gow, 1981) ? Is that what the book says?

 

[longqi]

My Bad
I meant to write Swan when I wrote Shaw

Yes danny
Thats what that book says
But other books dont include spilota

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Anyone else know definitively if a Bredli is or is not a Carpet Python???

 

[CaptainRatbag]

Hi CaptainRatbag,

I'm confused! It was Gow that discovered the difference in scalation, like you say in 1981. That's when it was made into a species of its own. Why then do you have it as Morelia spilota bredli (Gow, 1981) ? Is that what the book says?

I know nothing about it Danny, I just typed the first paragraph word for word.... turns out it is the same book Longqi has :lol:

From what I gather Longqi, even the 'experts' dont know for sure . I just know I love 'em..... one of my top.... about 20 pythons

 

[Jacknife]

From my understanding it's changed from sub species M. Spilota Bredli to it's own sub-species M. Bredli, but this has not changed the common name in any way. So while technically now incorrect, it's still perfectly acceptable to use the common name Centralian Carpet Python.
But I;m sure someone else knows better than I on this matter...

On a similar strain, how has the Scrubbie classification gone as well? Was the Morelia Amethystina/Morelia Kinghorni debate settled?

 

[longqi]

Maybe one of the more scientifically oriented members can make a sticky with exact names???
Could be good reference tool since even the books tend to disagree???

 

[CaptainRatbag]

I would hazard a guess, it is personal choice until further notice :lol:

 

[shaunyboy]

In answer to your questions, yes and no.

It makes me quite sad how people mix and match snakes here in the UK. There was a time not that long ago, that I thought the bredli would not be used as much with all this fancy breeding but unfortunately it's becoming all to popular.

whats so bad about adding Bredl genetics to the mix mate ?

imo one of the best jags in the UK,is a Diamond Bredl Jaguar,owned by chris schroomy here in Scotland

Rolph Mikkelsen produced it and imo he does a lot of good work using Bredl genetics and Carpets

i'm not being cheeky mate

all the best,shaun

 

[dannydee]

whats so bad about adding Bredl genetics to the mix mate ?

imo one of the best jags in the UK,is a Diamond Bredl Jaguar,owned by chris schroomy here in Scotland

Rolph Mikkelsen produced it and imo he does a lot of good work using Bredl genetics and Carpets

i'm not being cheeky mate

all the best,shaun

Didn't think you were mate.
I'll tell you my reasons - I'm of the opinion that there is enough diversity within the carpet python complex, that there is no need to breed sub-species together, or even different species for that matter. I know it's the done thing in the hobby these days, but I'm having difficulty moving with the times.
I like things the way nature intended, and find it frustrating that people need to completely mix things up before they're happy.
I suppose it a case of each to their own, but I think we should draw the line at breeding different species together.

 

[Bluetongue1]

Badsville actually hit the nail on the head. The term “Carpet Python” is a common name and NOT a scientific name. If you think about it, the nominate subspecies for the group is actually the Diamond Pythons (Morelia spilota spilota) so if the common name were dependent on the scientific name, they should all be called Diamond Pythons.

Bredli was described by Gow in 1981 as full species but it has not been widely accepted. Cheynei and metcalfei were described as full species by Wells and Wellington in 1984 and 1985 respectively. Again, these descriptions have met with very limited acceptance.

Unfortunately there are no hard and fast rules when it comes to accepting taxonomic revisions. Some seem to be readily accepted while others are slow to gain widespread acceptance, if at all. The nature of the arguments presented in the original taxonomic paper describing an animal as a full species has a lot to do with this.

Blue

 

[dannydee]

Badsville actually hit the nail on the head. The term “Carpet Python” is a common name and NOT a scientific name. If you think about it, the nominate subspecies for the group is actually the Diamond Pythons (Morelia spilota spilota) so if the common name were dependent on the scientific name, they should all be called Diamond Pythons.

Bredli was described by Gow in 1981 as full species but it has not been widely accepted. Cheynei and metcalfei were described as full species by Wells and Wellington in 1984 and 1985 respectively. Again, these descriptions have met with very limited acceptance.

Unfortunately there are no hard and fast rules when it comes to accepting taxonomic revisions. Some seem to be readily accepted while others are slow to gain widespread acceptance, if at all. The nature of the arguments presented in the original taxonomic paper describing an animal as a full species has a lot to do with this.

Blue

Good morning Blue,

So what's your thoughts on breeding the bredli with say a diamond or coastal for example??

 

[cement]

I think you might be missing the point with the quote from Keeping and Breeding Australian Python book. Gow describes it as a new species but Fyfe doesn't. Its not confusing just one persons usage against anothers.

The Harrisoni isn't even described as being in Australia, yet it is (wild population).
Theres plenty to still sort out.

 

[Cockney_Red]

Didn't think you were mate.
I'll tell you my reasons - I'm of the opinion that there is enough diversity within the carpet python complex, that there is no need to breed sub-species together, or even different species for that matter. I know it's the done thing in the hobby these days, but I'm having difficulty moving with the times.
I like things the way nature intended, and find it frustrating that people need to completely mix things up before they're happy.
I suppose it a case of each to their own, but I think we should draw the line at breeding different species together.

Nothing wrong with disliking MUTS Dan........nature all the way