can some one help identify this snake!!!

Discussion in 'Reptile and Amphibian Identification' started by turtlecheeks, Oct 20, 2012.

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  1. jase75

    jase75 Well-Known Member

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    I don't get how your family was in danger, it's a 40cm Snake. You could easily use a broom to get it into a bucket or box and release it away from your house. Or just put a bucket over it, get some cardboard to slide under the bucket, flip it and without any danger it's in the bucket. Sometimes I think people just take what they see as the easy option. There are always other options other than a shovel or shotgun!!
     
  2. turtlecheeks

    turtlecheeks New Member

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    Ok this man no longer does snake catching thank you very much, I tried to contact him this morning and unless you live here you have absolutely no idea of what the situation is!. If had known that I would be victimised like this for protecting my family I certainly would not have bothered to get information from this forum!!! Next time I will freeze the snake and send it to a university in Brisbane for a positive Id. Thank you to those people who did help, it is very much appreciated.
     
  3. saintanger

    saintanger Very Well-Known Member

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    so next time you plan on killing again then frezzing and sending it off for id.
     
  4. Venomous_RBB

    Venomous_RBB Very Well-Known Member

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    I think its mainly the fact you killed it, and you have just said again, you will do it again?
    Why, what has snakes done to you?

    You should do this:
    Edit:
    Everyone on here are snake lovers and unfortunately alot of people kill snakes, like the one you have just killed, it is really hard for most people, me included to understand what drives people to kill living things.

    My mum is terrified of snakes, she however would never hurt a snake, her first instinct is to flight and leave it alone. We have heaps of animals, I mean, we have a farm basically. And we just bring the dogs inside if a snake is about.
    Even if there was young kids living here, I know my mum would never hurt a snake, she would get either my dad to move it (by doing the above (not killing it)) or get a snake catcher out.

    I understand if you dont have a snake catcher but a persons first instinct should be to move it away from the house, not to kill the poor thing....
     
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2012
  5. Stuart

    Stuart Site Admin Staff Member

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    Very bad statement to make on here and while I wholeheartedly disagree with you I would like to hear your thoughts on if your cats were getting into a neighbors hypothetical rat & mouse farm, would your neighbor be justified in taking pictures of your cats in their shed and then a picture 2 minutes later of your cat vs a high velocity round?

    Based on your logic and actions, I believe this would be a justifiable action, what do you think?

    Edit: Oh, and just in case, if this was human vs human, it would be classed as murder considering you had the core site to remove it to a new location and then end it's life. Just stating the obvious to the blind.
     
  6. Bluetongue1

    Bluetongue1 Guest

    Enough is enough!!!

    I am with Turtlecheeks. Following that introduction to APS I would not want to touch this forum with a barge pole. One has to ask, just what is with the witch-hunts? Mention “dead” and “spade” in the same ID thread… and it’s on!

    To what good end? That’s what I would like to know. So many surmise and accuse without being in receipt of the full facts. Even when informed so many continue to assume the roles of judge, jury and executioner, irrespective of the evidence. It tends to be “guilty” irrespective of proven otherwise.

    Some of the responses were absolutely appalling. You have people who are supposedly familiar with snakes saying it might be a death adder. How the hell is someone not familiar with snakes supposed to know it is not one of Australia’s most dangerously venomous snakes? Yet once someone more able than themselves has ID’d it as the far less dangerous DeVis’ Banded, it becomes a capital crime to have killed it, despite it being found inside the house and suffering cat inflicted injuries. Those who actually know their herpetology would recognise that a shovel belt to the head is a much less painful death that septicaemia induced through cat mauling.

    More importantly, did one person suggest how to deal with a reasonable sized venomous snake in a dwelling with children in a town in which the snake relocator is no longer available? NOT ONE! Yet at the same time you want to stick the knife in and twist it. ABSOLUTELY PATHETHIC. A couple of posters, to their credit, did suggest how it might avoided but the majority were only in the witch hunt.

    When you read comments about killing a snake being the equivalent to murdering a human being, you have to ask your self just what planet that individual is on. I have had a love affair with reptiles since before I could toddle but that does not mean I have lost the plot and don’t have a rational set of values.

    These witch-hunts are an exercise in ego. I have yet to see one that had a positive, productive outcome. Positive education is what is required in those cases where people have reacted with unnecessary fear or actions. So instead of pointing the finger at others, why don’t all those critical posters come up with a positive suggestion that may avoid the necessity of killing a snake next time around? Yes, you will find it a lot harder to do. And if that’s too hard for you… don’t post your pathetic negatives where they serve no-one good and highlight the type of individual you are.

    Blue
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 21, 2012
  7. Sleazy.P.Martini

    Sleazy.P.Martini Well-Known Member

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    Blue, I liked your post. But I only liked it because there is no love button. Well said
     
  8. Stuart

    Stuart Site Admin Staff Member

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    I respect your opinions Blue and as you have been around longer than I, you have more knowledge and experience than me of course but I disagree on your point of view. Lack of knowledge does not give one permission to kill and there were several more options open to the OP than killing it. Whether septicemia took its course or other means, the OP should have followed a more logical course of action regardless of if the animal in question was one of our most venomous or not.

    And yes, I likened the killing of a defenseless animal to murder based on certain options open to the OP at the time of finding the snake to the time of ending its life. I don't know if you have ever been in a situation as such, and so will not make assumptions, but why are we allowed to kill animals that threaten our life but not humans?

    I am more than happy to explain my reasoning via PM if it helps.

    Stuart
     
  9. Sleazy.P.Martini

    Sleazy.P.Martini Well-Known Member

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    Stuart. The reason we're allowed to kill animals and not people is because a human life is more valuable than an animal. And that's not sarcasm, I actually believe that
     
  10. Irbz_27

    Irbz_27 Active Member

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    Very well said blue
     
  11. Stuart

    Stuart Site Admin Staff Member

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    I value your thoughts, and I agree to a point but humans are capable of choice. I have seen situations where animals hold the moral high ground over humans and as such don't believe my words should change anyone opinions, but it will take a strong argument to convince me that killing animals because they "might" be a threat to a person or their families is a reason to die.

    If that was the case, no one would see their bosses :D
     
  12. saintanger

    saintanger Very Well-Known Member

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    first of all it was the OP'S fault being in this situation, why let a cat roam around at night to kill and bring in injured reptiles into your house especially wen you know there are ven's around your area. i am pretty sure most councils do not allow cats out after dark for this reason.

    secoundly the snake was not agressive so why be agressive towards it

    thirdly while the OP was willing to walk right up to a non agressive snake with a shovel why not scoop it up with the shovel and place it in a bucket or empty bin and release it itsted of smashing it over the head. if they were worried for their safet they would stay away from it.

    and last but not least OP has clearly stated that next time she/he will do it again.

    blue i know you like to stick up for snake killers as this is not the first time, but truth is the last two people you have stuck up for have said they will do it again or the friend of that person who posted the pic have said that the killer will kill snakes and don't care.

    some people can't be educated.
     
  13. Irbz_27

    Irbz_27 Active Member

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    If I woke in the morning to find something in my house that I felt may be a threat to my kids, be it an animal or a human or whatever, I would not hesitate to destroy it in any way possible if it was something I knew nothing about... A person with no understanding of snakes makes a "logical" decision in there eyes. All well and good to judge but in a state of threat, people do what they feel is the safest...
     
  14. jase75

    jase75 Well-Known Member

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    I understand what you're saying but what I can't understand is how anyone can see a 40cm snake as a threat to their family and kids. It's just the easy option to use a shovel. It's just sad that this is how so many people think.
     
  15. Tsubakai

    Tsubakai Very Well-Known Member

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    If people can't handle being flamed for killing a snake then they shouldn't post for an ID on a forum filled with snake lovers. I don't necessarily condone the anger but what response do people honestly think they are going to get?
     
  16. Wally

    Wally Subscriber Subscriber

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    Amen in an atheist kinda way.
     
  17. Irbz_27

    Irbz_27 Active Member

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    But I do agree with the whole cat should be inside issue... A couple of years ago I had a very near fatal motorbike accident when I rode over a cat. Would have been avoided if the car owner was law abiding, as in my municipality cats must be secure on property 24 hours a day...
     
  18. disintegratus

    disintegratus Very Well-Known Member

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    I can see how people would mistake this snake for an adder, with it's head smashed in, it certainly gives it almost the right head shape. :S


    I kind of agree with most people here, both sides of the fence.

    On one hand, if any of us were to find a snake in their home, aggressive or not, the overwhelming reaction would probably be "Oh my god! I'm going to miss it, get the camera!", but the average Joe Idiot does not differentiate between a 15cm Antaresia hatchie and a 20+foot Retic, they just see "Snake", and "Snake=bad".
    When people are scared of something, they do not act rationally, which is probably most of the reason that most snake vs shovel incidents do not end well. I understand their actions, which is not to say I condone them.

    Although I suspect his reasons were not particularly altruistic, in this instance, if the injuries in the first pic were cat-inflicted, I agree with killing the snake. As someone else said, Shovel to the head is a significant improvement on the death by septacaemia which would invariably follow.
    I have killed several animals, all taken from my sister's cats, most recently a garden skink. I stomped on it. Not pretty, but it beat the hell out of any close available method, and in the state the cat had it in, the sooner the better.

    While I can understand Blue's reaction, the OP was after all just looking for an ID; I think that the animosity that a lot of members displayed was fairly justified.
    If I accidentally ran over a cat, I wouldn't take a photo, post it on a forum full of cat lovers and ask "what breed is this?" Especially with no warning, or indication of the animals state. I think part of what is making everyone so mad is that not only did the OP kill it when it wasn't being aggressive in any way, but also that he is in the midst of a snake-oriented forum, and is not in the least bit apologetic for destroying it.

    Incidentally, it's not that I think that animal's lives have equal value to human lives, it's just that I find most people I meet to be worthless.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Sorry, wrote an essay.:)
     
  19. Gruni

    Gruni Very Well-Known Member

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    You know I was going to stay out of this one because I can see bth sides as far as the passionate responses go but lets look at the underlying issue that Blue was hitting at.

    Whether you agree with the OP killing the snake or not, if you did something like that and went to a forum to be better informed for next time how would you feel if you copped that sort of backlash especially if you didn't know any better... and there is the key word KNOW... and yes he could have gone about things differently.

    If you want to stop ignorance you have to educate and you can't educate if you straight away insult and belittle, you have successfully chased someone away who may have developed a keener interest in reptiles and now has no incentive what so ever to learn how to deal with that sort of situation again. Yet another example of keyboard warriors getting stuck into a noob, be proud and justify it however you like but you have taught the OP nothing other than to stay away from here... and for the record I don't agree with him killing the snake either but I do understand why he did and not being familiar with his town I can't tell him who he should or should not call. Even with my love of snakes I stay a healthy distance from any vens regardless of how placid they seem.
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2012
  20. SamNabz

    SamNabz Very Well-Known Member

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    The sensitivity of this forum is becoming increasingly annoying.
     
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