Cape York's - Jungles or Coastals?

[bundysnake]

I know everyone is going to have their own opinion but it will be interesting to see what answers we get.

 

[Jarden]

Jungles

 

[whcasual79]

i like em both .... jungles tho, cuz i own 1 ha

 

[Jarden]

Eww so didnt read the question right,


What are cape yorks, I dont know lmao dont mind my first comment i thought you were asking which snake i prefer

 

[gman78]

I don't think people are understanding the question.
Are Cape Yorks Jungles or Coastals???

 

[candycaine]

both IMO where's the Both option lol.

I have both

reason I say both is simple my coastals are of coastal size and my jungles only grow to about jungle size, patterns however are different too, my coastals arn't as bright as my jungles patterns. capies have a tipical brourd triangular head but the head patterns are different between the two as well. the cape york jungles head patterns are almost the same as a normal jungle patter with the black running through the eye's to the nose and the cape york coastal is less patterned.

this is what I've observed with my lot over the years anyway.

 

[pyrodarknessanny]

ill say jungle cause they fall in the jungle documented natural range,
saying that thou there could be some coastal that way mind you there likely to be intergraides or even yes ill say it,... ... hybrids! just to annoy those who insist on drawing a magical line in the sad that says all animals on one side have to be one type and there prothe all the animals on the other side have to be the other type!,

well hears a news flash, see that line you just drew? well the animals dont care and will corss it all day long as they like!

 

[Cheyne_Jones]

ill say jungle cause they fall in the jungle documented natural range,
saying that thou there could be some coastal that way mind you there likely to be intergraides or even yes ill say it,... ... hybrids! just to annoy those who insist on drawing a magical line in the sad that says all animals on one side have to be one type and there prothe all the animals on the other side have to be the other type!,

well hears a news flash, see that line you just drew? well the animals dont care and will corss it all day long as they like!

Thing is, those lines you talk about are there for good reason, they are habitat barriers. Why do you think green pythons are only really found in the Iron range or Oenpelli are only found in a small area, because of habitat barriers. Thats why jungle habitat doesnt spread all the way up to the tip of the cape, habitat barriers that they cant penetrate hence the coastal tag outside their range.

 

[Serpentes]

This is a tricky question for reptile taxonomists.

My belief parallels that of Steve Wilson, it remains to be demonstrated whether the Morelia spilota classification of Wells and Wellington (1984) represent valid subspecies or mere colour variants.

The small black and gold, and black and white coloured carpet pythons from the rainforests of eastern north Queensland (the M.s.cheynei of Wells and Wellington) do not extend further north than the northern limit of the Wet Tropics Bioregion, ie. Cooktown. Cooktown is on Cape York. North of Cooktown the carpet pythons look similar to the eastern seaboard 'coastal' type, rather than the boldly marked black and gold/white 'jungle' type. There are expections though.

Candycaine has described some interesting observations in colour patterning, obviously she's had exposure to the real situation of colour pattern distributions in the north. Herpetologists familiar with carpet pythons from the wet tropics and futher north know that they're a rather hard mob to classify. There is however a definite region within the wet tropics where the carpets are smaller and have bolder markings. These are what snake keepers refer to as "jungle carpet pythons". This form is not found on Cape York, per se.

Hope that helps

 

[JasonL]

They are what they are and don't care what you call them.

 

[Serpentes]

They are what they are and don't care what you call them.

You saying they don't have feelings? I swear whenever I say mean things to my pythons, especially the honey-ice-jungle-cape-yorks, they go all sooky. It's at these times they most like to be petted and stroked, spoken to in gentle, kind tones and soothed of their hurts.

The most successful breeder keep carpets in sound-proof boxes to avoid them overhearing any conversation they may construe as negative. That way no snakes get hurt feelings.

 

[JasonL]

No, snakes have feelings... they just can hear that well and don't understand English let alone Latin.

 

[Serpentes]

Ah, so softly spoken latin is the go if you're gonna mouth off in your herp room? Note to self: learn latin to become a better herp breeder.

 

[JasonL]

Just never try and breed a Cape York male with a Black and Gold female in an enclosure with a mirror and you will be right.

 

[Waterrat]

This is where "reptile pet keeping" and herpetology differs.
Leading Ausralian herpetologists (professionals -not amateurs) recognise three species of Morelia:
M. spilota, M. imbicata and M. bredli .... and that's it! The rest are aberrant morphs of the 3 species. This classification is mainly based on Rollings & Donnellan's extensive genetic work.
Sub-species are the result of bad science and vivid imagination, however, "reptile pet owners" and "reptile marketing managers" like it. More names, more sales.
No offence, all you splitters, keep on splitting, no one listening.

 

[Sturdy]

they are both carpet pythons... simple

 

[derekm]

Leading Ausralian herpetologists (professionals -not amateurs) recognise three species of Morelia:
M. spilota, M. imbicata and M. bredli .... and that's it! The rest are aberrant morphs of the 3 species.

What about Morelia amethistina, Morelia viridis and Morelia carinata?

Do you anticipate the Chondropython genus being reinstated and the scrubbie being returned to Liasis? I'd be interested in where you would put Morelia oenpelliensis, too. I'd be more inclined to reclassify Morelia bredli as Morelia spilota bredli than reclassify Morelia oenpelliensis as Morelia spilota oenpelliensi.

 

[viridis]

Michael is talking about Carpet Pythons, he just worded it wrong.

Cheers,
Viridis

 

[Waterrat]

Thanks Nick, yes, I was referring to carpets only. Although, IMO viridis does not fit the genus at all. I wont comment on the other Morelia, it's beyond me but I dare to say Antaresia should be only two species: A. childreni and A. perthensis, The rest is just one species going from darl to light from east to west with marginal pattern differences. But hey, I not a professional taxonomist, I just accept / reject what the pros say.
One day, taxonomists will also take into account ecological characters, not only morphological and genetic (I hope).

 

[Serpentes]

This is where "reptile pet keeping" and herpetology differs.
Leading Ausralian herpetologists (professionals -not amateurs) recognise three species of Morelia:
M. spilota, M. imbicata and M. bredli .... and that's it! The rest are aberrant morphs of the 3 species. This classification is mainly based on Rollings & Donnellan's extensive genetic work.
Sub-species are the result of bad science and vivid imagination, however, "reptile pet owners" and "reptile marketing managers" like it. More names, more sales.
No offence, all you splitters, keep on splitting, no one listening.

Awesome, so many excellent one liners in there always refreshing to hear someone call it as it is. Pity Hoser ain't on this forum, would be fun.

Going by ecology and morphology, I reckon there's something going on with "cheynei", it's certainly smaller and distinct- well at least the ones showing strong character traits are distinct, but they seem to intergrade so broadly with the more typical "coastal" carpets fringing their range. These typical "cheynei" are very uncommon though, or at least very hard to find. This is something I would love to look into myself if noone else gets around to it (and I find a briefcase full of cash).