Changes to vic carpet subspecies?

[AmazingMorelia]

I got told today that Victoria is changing their regulations to list all subspecies of carpet pythons (inlands, darwins, coastals, jungles, diamonds, bredli and imbricarta) and wont allow cross breeding of these? Is anyone aware of this? Is it correct or not?
Cheers

 

[Red-Ink]

Still all under the same taxa code, just recognising the subs by name. No mention of what's allowed or not as far as legalities are concerned they would still be the same before the change, under code 2069? - carpet python.

 

[AmazingMorelia]

Would be the firs5 step to seperating them in the future I would assume. No other need to do what they have unless there was an endgame. I know SA are looking at adding further codes for the subspecies. Currently SA seperates Diamonds, Bredli, South Westerns and the rest as carpet python.

 

[junglepython2]

I wonder if they will crack down on all the bredli jags being sold.

 

[Bushman]

I hope so and it's about time that the various states followed NSW lead in this regard.
Whilst lumping may be useful for taxonomists, splitting is better for retaining the regional integrity of captive bred animals.

 

[Pythoninfinite]

I know there is universal concern amongst state authorities about the activities of captive breeders and the mixing of species/subspecies, along with the importing of the various morphs from overseas within a short time of their appearance o/s. There is a lot of refined genetic work being done in a couple of places (SA seems to be the hotspot) on the genetics of these animals. It's one reason why WA won't let other Carpets in - they have just one subspecies and don't want the local genetics contaminated by idiot breeders who can't help themselves...

Jamie

 

[Snowman]

I know there is universal concern amongst state authorities about the activities of captive breeders and the mixing of species/subspecies, along with the importing of the various morphs from overseas within a short time of their appearance o/s. There is a lot of refined genetic work being done in a couple of places (SA seems to be the hotspot) on the genetics of these animals. It's one reason why WA won't let other Carpets in - they have just one subspecies and don't want the local genetics contaminated by idiot breeders who can't help themselves...

Jamie

It will be interesting to see if they add the NW carpet pythons to the keepers list in this next addition. I doubt that many people could tell the difference between them. The only difference I can see is the imbricata don't have the suture on the nasal scale.

 

[AmazingMorelia]

SA parks are red hot on cross breeding and imported bloodlines. They have done DNA on all the subspecies and they are able to tell the difference between IJs and Darwins on a DNA level and so if Granites rock up here in SA they will be able to prove through DNA that it has IJ blood. While they have MDs, Coastals, Darwins and Jungles all on the same code (Co 2526) if they know you have crossed them they will come after you. I guess the best way to describe SA parks is that they are ultra purists and can give you as a keeper a hard time if they dont like what you are doing.
I know there was some talk about having a database of people around Oz who cross bred their animals so if someone in SA put in a import permit from that person they could reject the import or ask to inspect the animal on arrival.
I am not sure what the views are from other departments around Australia but that is how it is in SA.

 

[AmazingMorelia]

It will be interesting to see if they add the NW carpet pythons to the keepers list in this next addition. I doubt that many people could tell the difference between them. The only difference I can see is the imbricata don't have the suture on the nasal scale.

Is there any North Westerns from WA in captivity? Do they differ much at all to the NT ones?
I would have thought you could keep them in WA as they are local?

 

[Pythoninfinite]

SA parks are red hot on cross breeding and imported bloodlines. They have done DNA on all the subspecies and they are able to tell the difference between IJs and Darwins on a DNA level and so if Granites rock up here in SA they will be able to prove through DNA that it has IJ blood. While they have MDs, Coastals, Darwins and Jungles all on the same code (Co 2526) if they know you have crossed them they will come after you. I guess the best way to describe SA parks is that they are ultra purists and can give you as a keeper a hard time if they dont like what you are doing.
I know there was some talk about having a database of people around Oz who cross bred their animals so if someone in SA put in a import permit from that person they could reject the import or ask to inspect the animal on arrival.
I am not sure what the views are from other departments around Australia but that is how it is in SA.

It's of great interest to all state authorities atm, and will probably lead to a national approach to the "problem." I'm not sure what they can do about it, but I know a great deal of discussion is going on across state borders just now.

Jamie

 

[Snowman]

Is there any North Westerns from WA in captivity? Do they differ much at all to the NT ones?
I would have thought you could keep them in WA as they are local?

No we can't keep a lot of WA natives. RSP and Pygmy pythons are some that we can't keep. I've never seen a WA specimen.

 

[Snowman]

SA parks are red hot on cross breeding and imported bloodlines. They have done DNA on all the subspecies and they are able to tell the difference between IJs and Darwins on a DNA level and so if Granites rock up here in SA they will be able to prove through DNA that it has IJ blood. While they have MDs, Coastals, Darwins and Jungles all on the same code (Co 2526) if they know you have crossed them they will come after you. I guess the best way to describe SA parks is that they are ultra purists and can give you as a keeper a hard time if they dont like what you are doing.
I know there was some talk about having a database of people around Oz who cross bred their animals so if someone in SA put in a import permit from that person they could reject the import or ask to inspect the animal on arrival.
I am not sure what the views are from other departments around Australia but that is how it is in SA.

That is interesting. I got a renewed license the other day and it had a new condition written across the top of it that stated any of my animals must be presented for DNA testing at request (or something like that). I thought it was to make sure people weren't claiming to breed something they did not. But that doesn't really make sense.... What does make sense is what you have suggested and perhaps having stimi's, woma's, bhps etc from over east.

 

[Elapidae1]

Thats always been on my license Snow.

 

[Pitttownboy]

U guys in WA have it tough considering I thought nsw was strict. Even if its in your state and is local and common u can't keep it but I can, ridiculous

 

[Bushfire]

How odd for SA to be a hot spot of such activities when you consider they had the opportunity to hit the jags very early in the game and send a rippling effect throughout the states BUT choose to directly ignore the problem, they knew all along they were an OS morph. This was mentioned in one of the joint agency meetings they hold regularly, and have been doing so for some time.

 

[AmazingMorelia]

They didnt directly ignore the problem at all, far from it. They DNAd a number of them but they came back as coastal. They didnt catch anyone smuggling and tested them. Their handsmwere tied. They did catch some fool who crossed Jags with Bredlis and smashed the dude. At this point they can only prosecute you for crossing Bredli, SWs, Diamonds with anything else.

 

[Jacknife]

They didnt directly ignore the problem at all, far from it. They DNAd a number of them but they came back as coastal. They didnt catch anyone smuggling and tested them. Their handsmwere tied. They did catch some fool who crossed Jags with Bredlis and smashed the dude. At this point they can only prosecute you for crossing Bredli, SWs, Diamonds with anything else.

Hahaha I remember that, bloke got the book thrown at him! Shame about what happened to the snakes...

 

[champagne]

How odd for SA to be a hot spot of such activities when you consider they had the opportunity to hit the jags very early in the game and send a rippling effect throughout the states BUT choose to directly ignore the problem, they knew all along they were an OS morph. This was mentioned in one of the joint agency meetings they hold regularly, and have been doing so for some time.

The S.A. dept of environment believe that the ''jag gene'' is a colour mutation and can occur in any sub species, the reason they destroyed the jag clutch was because it was a bredli cross, so known species cross not sub species.

 

[champagne]

SA parks are red hot on cross breeding and imported bloodlines. They have done DNA on all the subspecies and they are able to tell the difference between IJs and Darwins on a DNA level and so if Granites rock up here in SA they will be able to prove through DNA that it has IJ blood. While they have MDs, Coastals, Darwins and Jungles all on the same code (Co 2526) if they know you have crossed them they will come after you. I guess the best way to describe SA parks is that they are ultra purists and can give you as a keeper a hard time if they dont like what you are doing.
I know there was some talk about having a database of people around Oz who cross bred their animals so if someone in SA put in a import permit from that person they could reject the import or ask to inspect the animal on arrival.
I am not sure what the views are from other departments around Australia but that is how it is in SA.

Would love to hear more information on this as there has been testing before and the only sub species that might be proven through dna is MD even IJ's couldn't be split. Also the fact everyone is crossing back with pure sub species means it will be even harder to prove.

 

[champagne]

They didnt directly ignore the problem at all, far from it. They DNAd a number of them but they came back as coastal. They didnt catch anyone smuggling and tested them. Their handsmwere tied. They did catch some fool who crossed Jags with Bredlis and smashed the dude. At this point they can only prosecute you for crossing Bredli, SWs, Diamonds with anything else.

they actually couldn't prosecute anyone as they had no dna profiles at the time the bredli jags were destroyed.... this is why they started trying to map the dna of all sub species in the hope it will hold up in court. I haven't followed up on where they are at with it now as I found the whole thing a joke and waste of tax payers/dept. money