Collecting Wild Reptiles.

[Sdaji]

I do think they should have a quota on how many they can take
Also why should they sell adults and not just captive bred hatchies ?

I strongly agree with this.

 

[dobermanmick]

I would rather pay $800 or so for someone to collect 8 stimmies for me than get my own, because I know that it would take me a heck of a lot more than $800 to get there and spend time searching etc, and I may not even be able to find any

I think they charge quite a bit more then $100each

http://www.aussiepythons.com/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=6746

 

[womas4me]

Gregory, what small chance of blowing a tyre. Have you ever been onto station land in the Pilbara?. Obviously not. We blow tyres regularly so your facts are out. It's not all bitumen here pal. I take two spares with me and it's not uncommon to need both.
I wont be drawn into a moral argument, if i wanted that i would join Greenpeace.
None of you are forced to pay the WA prices so if you dont like them, dont buy the animals. Take your complaints about the export fee ( yes i agree it is ridiculous and is there to discourage trade and to fill CALM's coffers ) to CALM but that is not something i have any control over. Be f....ed if i am paying it though.
If you feel so strongly about this topic i say again, why dont you complain to CALM and lobby to have it changed. If all you are prepared to do is waffle s@#t here then what really is your point mate? Where are you going with this and what outcome are you aiming for?

 

[dobermanmick]

On a side note I thought you could by 4wd tyres that have a warranty against staking ?

 

[Sdaji]

think they charge quite a bit more then $100each

Oops! Yes, I realise that! The 8 stimsons was a typo. Sorry. But the message is still the same, if I wanted to collect a pair of stimsoni for myself, or even two or three pairs, it would cost far more than if I bought from one of the licensed collectors, even with their "enormous" prices.

I thought you were staying out of this one? :lol:

 

[dobermanmick]

No i was sitting on the fence watching . :lol:

 

[Gregory]

Gregory, if wild animals can be taken for profit, without damaging the populations, do you have a problem with it?

I don't have a problem if there are limits in place and only the offspring are sold on. I do have a problem with adult animals being collected and sold.

I eat fish, they are harvested from the wild, someone is profiting from me buying them.

But you can also go out and catch your own John.

As long as those collecting them are doing it responsibly

Are there any checks in place to see that it is being done responsibly?

I think it would be silly to say that the animals shouldn't be collected at all.

I never said they shouldn't be collected at all. I just don't agree that an elite few can do it for profit.

I know of illegal collecting which has been done hideously irresponsibly, I've literally felt violently ill when I've seen what poachers have done to large areas of habitat and at least to some degree, people doing it legally will be more responsible.

Again, what system is in place to police the so called legal poachers?

I wont be drawn into a moral argument, if i wanted that i would join Greenpeace.

Funny how people who profit from this sort of thing always ignore the morality of it.

Where are you going with this and what outcome are you aiming for?

I'm aiming for nothing. I know nothing will change. I'm expressing my opinion and have invited people to voice theirs as well.






Greg.

 

[womas4me]

Ah, i want to know though, how exactly am i profiting from this. Have you somehow seen my cash book. I havn't come halfway to covering my costs so until the expenses are paid i make NO profit. So the real problem is that i make money from catching a wild animal and selling it to someone who want's to buy it.
OK to answer your question, define responsibly catching a reptile. Does this involve a certain moral technique. How about you post all your questions and i will answer them using the legislation.
I have some questions though.
1. Where realistically does morality come into this. I am not asking for how you feel but for facts about how this is effecting the current wild populations and the potential impact it will have in the future on reptile populations. Basically i want to know why you feel this way. ' Because i do ' is a cop out answer. Also try to substantiate your opinion for me with any evidence you may have.
2. Saying ' i know nothing will change ' is a very defeatist statement Gregory. What you are saying is that you dont have the heart to stand up for what you believe and would rather winge about it. You would rather gather public opinion for no worthwhile reason. Why arn't you doing something about this issue which you believe strongly in. This thread will not change anything, it has to start somewhere so why not with you?

 

[Ramsayi]

I'm wondering if there is a quota system or not.Also if there is any incentive for the handful of collectors out there to breed up wild caught stock and establish captive bred stock to supply the australia wide demand for these animals.

 

[Gregory]

Ah, i want to know though, how exactly am i profiting from this. Have you somehow seen my cash book.

Obviously the profit's there to be had otherwise you wouldn't be doing it. How you run your business and it's profits and losses are up to you. That's something I can't answer.

OK to answer your question, define responsibly catching a reptile. Does this involve a certain moral technique.

Do you replace every rock you turn over? Do you leave a landscape the way it was before you got there? If you do, good on you but I'm sure irresponsible collecting does happen.

Where realistically does morality come into this. I am not asking for how you feel but for facts about how this is effecting the current wild populations and the potential impact it will have in the future on reptile populations.

This is something that may never be known. You may be wiping out whole generations of animals that would ordinarily be a part of a unique eco system. Who knows what long term damage it may or may not do. Can you guarantee that no changes WILL take place?

Saying ' i know nothing will change ' is a very defeatist statement Gregory.

True it is. I just can't help thinking that way. Only history will prove me right or wrong.


I didn't start this thread for any type of crusade. If I lived in WA I may well have taken up the cause but as I'm in Sydney it's not for me to do. From over here my only protest will be to not buy any WA animals that have been wild caught. I only hope other people will feel the same.
I only opened up lines of communication and was hoping for a sensible debate. Maybe someone could have convinced me that it's ok to take animals and sell them. I can't see that happening though.




Greg.

 

[womas4me]

No and no. There is one incentive in that there is no royalty on captive bred animals. CB are the only ones that CALM doesnt collect a fee for provided it is done in WA. If i was to import a CB animal from another state CALM still takes a fee. Where is the incentive for WA dealers to import CB stock when CALM takes a cut of everything.
IMO, years ago CALM should have legalised collecting for those intending to breed animals to supply to the public in general once licensing came into place. There COULD HAVE BEEN a number of comercial breeders who then were loaded with captive bred animals of various ages. This would have seen the current system changed somewhat. But these are all COULD HAVE's and mean nothing now.

 

[womas4me]

Incedentally, several major players in the reptile breeding and supply scene are currently sourcing WA stock for the purpose of getting a CB program in place. This is a good thing. I too want to see CB animals in WA but for now the only way that will happen is for breeding size animals to be removed from the wild and bred in captivity. I have no idea how many this involves to have a self sustaining population but there are many different localities in WA so therefore i can see it taking alot of animals so we dont have the massive hybridisation and loss of locality pure animals seen across other states.

 

[obee]

i hear ya greg,i agree with your stance.i refused wild caught bhp's from wa.call me stupid but i just couldn't justify it.i believe a quota should be collected for establishing a captive population but the breeders be kept not sold.just my opinion.


obee

 

[Greebo]

Over the weekend, during our reptile display I was amazed at how many people told me they had a reptile at home that they had found and kept. Lizards , turtles, snakes, frogs, you name it. These people are not trying to make a profit and most of them probably thought they were doing the animal a favour. I know as a kid I would bring animals home myself, that's where my interest in herps first started.
A few people have mentioned how far behind WA is but we only went legal in NSW in 97. Are we really so far ahead?

 

[PilbaraPythons]

To Gregory and others that think a like.
There is such a thing as sustainable harvesting with the key point being sustainable.
Species that are on the list to be harvested are indeed very common animals and are not in immediate danger of having their numbers diminished to a point of being vulnerable by 15 licensed takers through out our state. To think other wise is just plain ridiculous and clearly demonstrates what some people do not grasp. As for C.A.L.M.s perspective, do you really think that they just woke up one day and said ?oh what a good idea ?They have thought long and hard about this and would not have allowed this process to begin if they thought that there would be any realistic chance of any species becoming vulnerable. Another point is that C.A.L.M imposes large export fees to discourage the incentive of licensed takers over here to export. After all the main reason they have allowed the harvesting in the first place is so that W.A people can actually have their first chance to keep and breed these reptiles. And for all the people that don?t want black and white black heads and wild caught woma?s etc so what. There are hundreds of other very happy people who shall enjoy them immensely. Oh and the next time I find a gravid woma I will try to think of the morals of it all but it could be a little difficult as I am sure I would at that point of time have a stiffy.

 

[obee]

LMFAO,some valid points


OBEE

 

[africancichlidau]

ROFLMBAO PP

 

[womas4me]

Greebo, you guys had an amnesty in NSW. I dont know too much about the fine print with it but i believe you put your hand up and whatever you had was licensed no questions asked. As i said i dont know the fine print with that though. Over here the amnesty wiould be hand them in and dont get prosecuted.

 

[BROWNS]

i hear ya greg,i agree with your stance.i refused wild caught bhp's from wa.call me stupid but i just couldn't justify it

Correct me if i am wrong but i recall you obee, saying you were helping to move many of the WA wc animals?

These guys who have gone through the processses"which i believe were pretty full on" to be licenced collectors are now providing "legaly" many, many animals that many of us have wanted to keep for years and many of us have not even seen them at all.I think if anyone is majorly profiting out of this it is CALM.

As for sustainable populations being left behind i think that many of us would be surprised that the local aboriginals eat womas,bhps etc all the time..think about that one!!!!!

Nobody has raised the legal collecting in NT who collect most animals that are and have been cb for quite some time now...

I love the WA animals and if it weren't for the licenced collectors we wouldn't be able to enjoy seeing and keeping them in captivity as recently as we have.......

 

[obee]

you are incorrect browns.i was asked if i would move various species payment being animals, i declined.
as for aboriginal ppl eating herps,yes that is something that also should be looked into with a possible control.
i'm not saying they shouldn't be collected,just collected animals shouldn't be sold.i agree with the point made about sustainability.who has studied and concluded that it's all good.


obee