Cooler weather

[Fangs]

We are keeping the temps up in our enclosures in order to grow our snakes on a bit more over winter.
One thing we have noticed is that even though the temps are still high the snakes have slowed down somewhat.Some our 4 maccies(2adults,2juvies) have gone off their food.Our Bredli's (2adults,2juvies) are still eating well but have also slowed down somewhat.
I think it must have something to do with the ambient air temps or even the duration of natural light being less this time of year(no extra light given).
Are some species more sensitive to the change in season than others in particular spotted's and childreni or am I imagining it?

cheers M.....

 

[Magpie]

Yeah I have noticed this and so have several people whom I have talked to. I think the answer may be to provide 12 hours of bright light daily. According to discussion on Aust Herps, beardies have a '3rd eye' that allows them to sense the amount of light. I wouldn't discount the possibility of snakes having a similar sense. Something along the lines of a double 4' flouro in the room would do I would think. You can buy light switches that are electronic and have an inbuilt timer that you can set to come on at 6am and off at 6pm or whatever. Don't know where you would get them from but they are available. The cost of getting a double flouro installed should be minimal, as the wiring is already in place, just get the incandescent light that's already there replaced. If you don't keep all your snakes in one room, i guess this wont worrk though. :?

 

[Mark]

gone

 

[Magpie]

Yeah, I just thought that a single room light would be much cheaper.
How do yours go over winter mark? I notice that you are giving them shorter days. Are they less active then during summer?

 

[Mark]

gone

 

[Fangs]

Thanx for the info guys.
Mags do you remember the name of the thread in Aust herps or ruffly how long ago it was?
Mark have you noticed their appetites going slightly off or at least taking more time to initially start eating?Are you running standard fluoros,uv or both?

cheers M..........

 

[Magpie]

Another reason to promote over head lighting and heating against heat rock and heat mats, is Bearded Dragons have a third eye.
Located directly on top of there head if you look closely you will see a Circle (Dot) sometimes looks very much like a dot from a tattoo gun.

This reads light.
In studies contucted the third eye was covered resulting in loss of apetite and a few other things.

We experienced it this year when 1 of my wifes hatchling Beardies would not feed,when she done a inpection of the dragon she found 1 piece of vermiculite just enough tocovering the third eye,once remove the little dragon kicked into feeding mode and was sold 2 weeks later very healthy,with a massive appetite.

So if the dragon is not recieving enough heating and light from above this could also be another reason.

We currently have 1 of our 6 adult female that layed 5 clutched last year
acting and eating if it is the middle of summer,where all other dragons are brumating.
She run the same temprature as all the other dragons that are asleep the difference being we change her light and none of the other resulting in her thinking it is summer.

Will be interesting to see if reversing it will place her in brumation during summer.

This is something happened by accident and was not intentional done.
It worked out well as she did not have much condition on her going into winter and she will not be breed this season.

regards

Darin

Thread is hibernating beardies and is still a current thread.

 

[Mark]

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[Hawkeye]

Fangster,

Chili is eating like a horse (as per usual) even though as autumn has come upon us and I have reduced his fluoro hours by about 2 hours a day. Heating is the same. I suspect in your case it is the time of daylight (which is the usual stimulus in animals) rather than the heat issue which alters their feeding habits. Maybe because they are hot but with less light they are getting mixed signals, I don't know.

Also I read somewhere that snakes also have light reception via their tail and can therefore detect when there is some danger approaching from behind (for example when their heads are down a hole). I have seen this in the Chilimeister to when he has his head in a hide and I get near his tail, he reacts way before I touch it.

Cheers Hawkeye

 

[pythonss]

lighting.

with subadult/adults. if you are giving them shorter daylight lenght they will go off the food weather your actually cooloing them or not. the seasonal daylight system is instinkt for them so shorter days tells them is time to slow up
if providing extra heat..not cooling.. but there light cycles is shutting them down instead of keep them going for growth or weight it make actually work in reverse. the light cycles telling to shut down but the heat is keeping there metabolism active which will actually make them lose weight if there arnt feeding well.
if you not going to cool you still have to keep them in the right light cycle is what im trying to get at..lol
cheers paul.

 

[grahamh]

Two interesting points..
1. The third eye is interesting Craig. When you think about it the Tuatara (with its very distinct third eye) looks a lot like a beardie/water dragon. I must get into some of these herps.

2. Paul's comments have made me think. I have two 3 month old bredls and they are continuing to eat as raveously as normal. What is interesting though is that they are in constant temperature (each in its own small plastic critter cage). They have a good tem gradient from 32C on the base at one end to ambient at the other end. They move around as they need to selecting different places that suit them, but they get no light other than a little ambient light through close blinds during the day. What's more only one end of the cage gets that small amount of light. It never occurred to me to give them any additional lighting. It will be interesting to see what they do when they move into their new enclosures. Will they become more active with the light regime that I plan to give them (same as my two lovely Olives).

G 8)

 

[Fangs]

Thanx for all the info guys.I find this light thing very interesting.
As far as the Bedli's go they are still eating like horses,the Maccies on the other hand have lost much of their appetites.Both species however have shown a marked slowdown in activity.
The conclusion I have come to is that the Maccies are more sensitive to the changed conditions (light cycle or ambient air temps)although I am leaning towards the light cycle than the Bredli's.
The only light all of our snakes get is from the window so more than likely the shorter days is the thing thats slowing them down.

Time to invest in a couple of timers I suspect.Anyone recommend any brand/type of timer because all the ones weve had in the past havent been worth a cracker.

graham,I would be very interested to know of any changes in behaviour with your Bredli's when you increase their light cycle.

cheers M............

 

[lutzd]

Fascinating

I find this whole discussion very interesting.

I'd noticed that all my snakes, with the exception of the olive, were eating less and less, and I guess this would explain it.

They are in enclosures that get a little light from a small window, but the olive is shielded from that light.

I remember when I got my first snake, the breeder said that you can't fool them - if they can see natural light, the light in their enclosure won't make much difference. I don't know how true this is. Does anyone have any personal experience to back this theory?

 

[Magpie]

Maybe I'm inferring a bit too much with no real evidence here, but what I find interesting is that some species seem to be affected much more than others. With the ones mentioned so far that aren't affected, olives and bredli, it may be feasible that in their natural range, they can eat through the winter without any problems, olives with ambient temps and bredli with basking. Mark's coastal throws this out a bit, although childreni are found in the tropics.

Anyway, enough of my theorizing, I can hear you all getting bored already.

David, no personal experience here on that but I would reckon a light thats mimicks daylight's spectrum as close as possible would be best. Or a dark curtain over the windows and as bright a light as possible with normal spectrum flouros.

I know I find myself, opening a curtain seems to make a room much brighter than putting a light on. I guess our eyes are just wired that way.

 

[Fangs]

The joys of unit livin eh Lutzdy?
As far as personal experience on the subject goes Ima workin on it.
From what youve heard on the subject David are you saying that artificial light wont fool em?If this is the case I wonder if using a broad spectrum tube as opposed to a garden variety one would be a wiser choice.

With your olive being the exception have you noticed that what you are putting in the bitey end is takin longer to digest than it was say two months ago even though his/her appetite is still up?

cheers M.......

 

[lutzd]

Not sure

I'm not sure if it's taking longer, but I don't think so. It's pretty warm in his enclosure, so I would guess the digestive process moves along pretty smartly.

As to the lighting - who knows! I'm only quoting what the breeder told me. But the theory sounds good.

Given that they are behaving that way, I'm inclined to cool them a bit more, which I wasn't going to do, but I guess it's best to go along with their natural behaviour, I guess. :?:

 

[womajsimpson]

G`day All,
I keep olives and womas at the moment and find with regards to photoperiod the best thing besides nature is a light sensing switch.
I use one through a breaker which can run as many flouro`s as most
will need.
Clipsal made the one I use and it cost about $90.00 if I remember right.
By the way, temps vary slightly in different areas of my enclosures with
the seasons and they`ve been off food for about 3 weeks now. I`m happy
with their habits but I can`t help but worry now and then. They always come good tho`,
Regards, Steve.

 

[Fangs]

Im kinda thinkin along your line now David and might just let nature take its course and stop tryin to feed em and let them cool.
womajsimpson,I gather this "light sensing switch"activates when the natural light fades.You would still need to run it thru a timer though wouldnt you?

cheers M........