COVID-19 virus

Discussion in 'Chit Chat' started by nuttylizardguy, Mar 12, 2020.

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  1. I have it.

    2.6%
  2. Very scared.

    2.6%
  3. Somewhat scared.

    2.6%
  4. Quite worried ( trying to distance , avoiding crowds , and adding some stuff to pantry JIC )

    30.8%
  5. Not concerned but watching local developments .

    35.9%
  6. Over stated by media scaremungering , business as usual for me.

    33.3%
  7. What is it.

    2.6%
  8. I'm in quaranteen and think I might be infected.

    2.6%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. -Adam-

    -Adam- Active Member

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    I am SO glad I didn't have a mouth full of Coke when I read that!!! I'd be wiping down my monitor at the moment otherwise!


    Have a good weekend all.
     
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  2. kankryb

    kankryb Active Member

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    Here in Denmark we are almost back to normal on monday border open up a bit and everything seems fine
     
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  3. nuttylizardguy

    nuttylizardguy Well-Known Member

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    Lot of covid-19 in neigbouring countries , ie Sweden (in particular) , takes up to 29 days for someone who is infected to become symptomatic ( mean is 14 days ) . So you wont know for sure if opening up your country was done too soon or not for maybe a month out to two months , remember Ro = 5.7 so two stages of spread will mean just one undetected infectious person can infect up to 38 people . See previous post.

    Not the most reliable source , WorldoMeter data
    Sweden ( 10.1M ) has had 32,172 cases , has 23,330 active covid-19 cases.
    Netherlands ( 17.1M ) has had 32,172 cases , doesn't public active cases .
    Norway ( 5.4M ) has had 8,309 cases , has 8,042 active covid-19 cases.
    Finland ( 5.5M ) has had 6,537 cases , has 1,431 active covid-19 cases.
    Poland (37.9M ) has had 20,379 cases , has 10,675 active covid-19 cases.
    Germany ( 83.8M ) has had 179,156 cases , has 11,840 active covid-19 case.
    Concervative estimate is at least 80,000 active cases in countries near enough to drive to Denmark, likely need to multiply this by 1.3 to 3 depending on how intensive local covid-19 testing is and how many active cases are being traced or detected.

    If I lived in Denmark this would be a worry.


    How is screening going in Denmark , is it extensive and open to anyone who has any symptoms at all ?
    Are visitors being required to quarantine ?
    Are people being cautious still ( self distancing , only travelling when necessary ( ie to go to buy food , meds , to work ) , protecting themselves when on public mass transport ?
    --- Automatic Post Merged, May 22, 2020, Original Post Date: May 22, 2020 ---
    Health experts say it's safe to fly in the middle seat on planes
    https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/aust...le-seat-on-planes/ar-BB14r4or?ocid=spartandhp

    Nanofiltration on the air in the cabin is a good start ( if this is what "they" refer to ) , but still there's a very large volume of air in a pressurized airliner cabin , and if the residence time for complete filtration of the entire cabin full of air is long , then the risk remains of someone who's slipped through the screening ( not been detected by the thermographers and perhaps even hides their viral status if they suspect they might be infected ) and the result will be many passengers will end up being infected.
    I've looked and can not find any studies that give a minimum residence time to viral aerosol contaminated air in a confined space ( ie cabin of a train, bus, air craft ) in a typical enforced sardine class seat spacing).


    IMO this needs to be tested under laboratory/controlled conditions ( using a good animal analog model ) to determine if this is INDEED safe. Otherwize the only way this can be "justified" is by saying , "very few undetected asymptomatic people in Australia ( well outside NSW & Victoria ) so risk of encountering an infected person on a flight is "small". ( Easy to say this when you are distant from the risk and unlikely to have to travel in Sardine Class , and the people making this claim have not backed up their claim with hard scientific evidence , handwavy anecdotes don't cut it . I think they need to produce a scientifically convincing argument , anyone who accepts their claim on face value is foolish .

    Closest I've been able to find is
    Effects of passenger thermal plume on the transport and distribution characteristics of airborne particles in an airliner cabin section.
    Yihuan Yan, Xiangdong Li & Jiyuan Tu << All employed at RMIT >>
    Journal of Science and Technology for the Built Environment
    Volume 22, 2016 - Issue 2
    https://doi.org/10.1080/23744731.2015.1090254

    This paper was targeting bacteria , and not viruses ( viruses are MUCH SMALLER ).

    It's clear no one has bothered checking this. So I'll call it on this claim , my science based fact checking indicates their claim dubious and not substantiated.

    If you must use mass public transport, or fly ( some have no choice ) then I STRONGLY suggest invest in a N95 or better grade respirator mask and wear all the time while taking mass public transport, at the bus stop, at the train station , at the booking terminal , at the gates , and while on the aircraft. It could save your life if someone boards who is infected.

    And if you have a cold or the flu , you might just prevent yourself spreading it to others too, if you are stupid enough to NOT to stay at home ( that cold or flu might actually be covid-19 ).
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2020
  4. Shaggers89

    Shaggers89 Not so new Member

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    You do know nutty that N95s and Better only last for 1Hr before becoming so useless you might as well wrap your head in Toilet paper for the good they do after said 1Hr so unless your prepared to carry around a bag full of them there’s really no point Also Covid19 is actually a larger virus then you think it is. To the people that have gone out and panic bought items please stop being stupid there is no need to panic be cautious yes but not panic THERE IS NO NEED TO GO OVER THE TOP.
     
  5. nuttylizardguy

    nuttylizardguy Well-Known Member

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    And a little more HARD SCIENTIFIC evidence indicating hydroxychloroquine is not helpful .
    [​IMG]

    Note there may be NEW evidence hydroxychloroquine can help mobilize serum Zn+ and Zn+ interfers with how Covid-19 invades cells ( so court is out in this aspect ). ref MedCram covid-19 update 71.
    Ref

    Hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin plus zinc vs hydroxychloroquine and
    azithromycin alone: outcomes in hospitalized COVID-19 patients (but NOT AS A PREVENTATIVE PROTECTION).

    Philip M. Carlucci, Tania Ahuja, Christopher Petrilli, Harish Rajagopalan, Simon Jones, Joseph Rahimian
    https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.05.02.20080036v1.full.pdf
    Published for peer review May 8, 2020
    Extract
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2020
  6. kankryb

    kankryb Active Member

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    As I said everything is pretty much back to normal here in Denmark everybody here keep their distance to each other, shops zoo's café all is open again but still 1 meter between everybody. screening is for all, they started with the young 18-30 then the rest, they even have drive though testing
    --- Automatic Post Merged, May 23, 2020, Original Post Date: May 23, 2020 ---
    48-72 hours wait for answer
     
  7. nuttylizardguy

    nuttylizardguy Well-Known Member

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    3 days to wait for a Positive or Negative is better than it was at the start. Do you know what test they are using ?

    I have some information that might be interesting for you and your friends and family ( is a bit detailed ) but gives some guidance that I've been holding onto while waiting for more scientific studies to come to light and for the likes of the CDC, WHO, the Australian CMO to give guidance ( so far very vague and handwavy and not really acceptable in detail from CMO here - seems his role has been politicised and he's doing what he's told by his masters in Canberra who are overly zealous about opening up (IMO)).
    Regards aerosolized covid19 particles in mass public transport ( buses, trains, trams, ferries and aircraft )
    This is some information I've gleaned :

    experimental data on covid19 aerosolized particles
    ref
    Aerodynamic Characteristics and RNA Concentration of SARS-CoV-2 Aerosol in Wuhan Hospitals during COVID-19 Outbreak
    Yuan Liu, Zhi Ning, Yu Chen, Ming Guo, Yingle Liu,Nirmal Kumar Gali, Li Sun, Yusen Duan, Jing Cai, Dane Westerdahl, Xinjin Liu, Kin-fai Ho, Haidong Kan, Qingyan Fu, Ke Lan,
    Extract
    [​IMG]
    Appears a filter needs to block particles larger than 0.025 micrometers.

    The viral particles stick together to form larger particles in aerosols than their individual size .

    This is the aerosol particle size distribution you can expect in mass public transport and in aircraft cabins will be the same . ( Because the physics that governs how big the viral aerosol particles will not be any different to in a hospital ward , is governed by weak hydrogen bonding and electrostatic forces on a nanoscale and surface tension on the microscale and of cause the geometry of the viral particles - the only difference will be concentration per cubic meter present , higher in the hospital ward full of sick people ).

    Nanofiltration membranes have pore sizes from as small as 1 nanometer ( 1000 nanometers per micrometer ). In data above , 0.01 micrometer infers a cut off of 10 nanometers.


    And additional info on N95 respirators .
    "N95" is a government efficiency rating that means the mask blocks about 95% of particles that are 0.3 microns in size or larger. (Which is good , but will pass the +0.01 micrometer to - 0.3 micrometer fraction of particles).
    Fortunately the distribution of viral aerosol particle sizes if quite skewed into to the +0.3 particle fractions , hence the recommendation for medics and nurses and first responders to ware N95 respirators as opposed to cloth masks ( that are considerably less effective filters and more hit and miss depending on how they are made ).
    Ref https://www.researchgate.net/public...ators_Against_Viruses_and_Ultrafine_Particles

    How long can I use my N95 or N99 respirator style face mask ?
    Yes they are regarded as a disposable item, BUT referring to https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/topics/hcwcontrols/recommendedguidanceextuse.html
    Inference is for a commuter , the same N95 remains protective so long as it remains useable and isn't soiled ( ie if the user sneezing lots, coughing lots , has a runny nose , in which case why the hell are they leaving their home other than to travel to the doctors' or to the ER ? ).

    Several days of continuous use is OK so long as one person uses it , and it's surfaces are not soiled or damaged , and the outside surfaces can be resterilized as needed quite easily ( so get two masks so you can rotate them ).
    --- Automatic Post Merged, May 23, 2020 ---
    Back in Australia - business owners trying to scam the JOBKEEPER system ( claiming an honest mistake in filling in the forms …. maybe some were that stupid, but this was always going to be open to abuse and very easy for unscrupulous business owners or their accountants to try to scam / play the system for a quick and easy windfall and should never have had to rely on the businesses to manage the money ( pass it onto the Jobkeeper )).

    Very forgiving of the ATD (and government) to give these businesses the benefit of the doubt .
    Never been so forgiving of "dole" and pension reciprients who are always assumed guilty first and have to prove their innocence. ( Look at the ROBODEBT fiasco .)
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2020
  8. Flaviemys purvisi

    Flaviemys purvisi Very Well-Known Member

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    Some more hard scientific evidence that nutty's garbage posts have no bearing on the level-headed at all...

    Gotta get those coals!
    20200522_183821.jpg

    Now while that's happening, I fetch a nice big 6kg premium grain-fed striploin from the fridge; (perks of being a slaughterman by trade). This beast was slaughtered and the cuts butchered and cryovac sealed back on April 20th.
    20200523_063432.jpg

    Cut this up into what common folk know as porterhouse steaks.
    Steaks.jpg

    Check the beverage situation...
    20200523_061946.jpg
    20200521_155913.jpg

    Check the fire and get the steaks on.
    20200522_190750.jpg
    20200522_191234.jpg

    And instead of wasting time worrying about a flu that's in decline.. get on with something USEFUL like teaching my 8 month old Domestic Short-hair how to fetch me a drink. He's making progress... he can unlatch the clasps on the cooler... I have to lift the lid for him but he's working it out. I think he'll have it figured out before too long.
    20200522_195537.jpg
    20200522_195701.jpg
    20200522_195608.jpg

    Life's too short to worry about nonsense like Chinavirus.
    20200523_055212.jpg
     
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  9. WizardFromAus-

    WizardFromAus- Active Member

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    Man that actaully looks amazing!

    Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk
     
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  10. Shaggers89

    Shaggers89 Not so new Member

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    Now those CC and drys look mighty fine that’s for sure
    Steaks look good as well
     
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  11. mrkos

    mrkos Well-Known Member

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    can this thread be closed and while the moderators are at it ban nlg for being an [Deleted]
    No one wants to read this rubbish on here this is a reptile keeping forum ffs
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 23, 2020
  12. Bl69aze

    Bl69aze Very Well-Known Member

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    Damn

    ??????

    I don’t know about anyone else, but I haven’t wanted to read the last 20 pages!
     
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  13. Rob

    Rob Super Moderator Staff Member

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    I've said it before and I'll say it again for the LAST time...

    Don't bypass the filter to post profanity. Using language such as post #571 will very likely see the author banned, rather than the OP. Oh the irony!

    This is the Chit Chat forum, no one is forcing you to read it. Instead of posting your objections to it in here, perhaps go and post some actual reptile keeping stuff.
     
  14. mrkos

    mrkos Well-Known Member

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  15. Flaviemys purvisi

    Flaviemys purvisi Very Well-Known Member

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    Hey @mrkos we can always just turn this into a reptile related thread...
    l-60558-mark-zuckerberg-hearing-that-reptiles-cant-get-infected-with-coronavirus.jpg
     
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  16. -Adam-

    -Adam- Active Member

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    I seriously don't get this. Various doctors from around the world are reporting it's success - and people keep on putting out scientific data that ignores real world cases while media suppresses the reporting on such reports.

    <shakes head in disbelief>

    Really goes to show just how controlled and in the same bed the media system is.

    I'd be inclined to believe this wasn't the case if they actually took into account those GP's and their success stories and gave it a balanced approach - but continuing to print out papers with numbers whilst keeping blind to what's going on elsewhere hardly instills confidence in these so called experts!

    PS - I think I may no longer be on the ignore list. I think I was wrong and @Flaviemys purvisi may have been right with the guess that we weren't being ignored after all. There wasn't much talk about hydroxychloroquine until I started putting up information on it. ;) I stand corrected - I suspect you were right and I was wrong Flaviemys!


    PPS - I'd also be a little more inclined to believe the information posted if it wasn't done with the same account as someone who has been posting pro-china propaganda on here as well.

    It really goes to show reputation is a critical thing to have if you're wanting people to take what you're saying seriously - and trust is easily lost - and extremely hard to earn back.

    Not just with this - but all sorts of relationships. Honesty and transparency is always the best policy IMO.
     
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  17. Flaviemys purvisi

    Flaviemys purvisi Very Well-Known Member

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    None of us are on the list mate... guaranteed.
     
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  18. Shaggers89

    Shaggers89 Not so new Member

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    Nuttys ego wouldn’t allow it
     
  19. nuttylizardguy

    nuttylizardguy Well-Known Member

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    https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/aust...irus-restrictions/ar-BB14rFVC?ocid=spartandhp

    He definitely would be much more efficient in this time use if he stayed put , saved himself having to spend about 8 hrs flying each way ( if he has a fast Leer Jet on lease ) + the commute to where ever these "meetings" were to be held + the stay in some 5 star motel and meals involved.
    I can't see him driving from the Gold Coast to WA , because
    1) he has to cross the closed QLD NSW or QLD NT or QLD SA borders ( he's not contesting this closure )
    2) it's bloody long drive from the Gold Coast to Perth ( 4400 km via the shortest route , it'll take at least 60 hrs driving none-stop ) and aren't the SA border still closed ( not contesting that either ).

    Important context here :
    WA government is Labor as is QLD and Vic and NT.
    SA gpvernment is Liberal, as is NSW.
    Palmer is not on friendly terms with any Labor government.

    And it's not as if he's providing an essential service , by any stretch of anyone but his imagination, he's got nothing essential to contribute by travelling to Perth. There is nothing he can do by travelling to Perth that can't be done using commercial air freight or the RAAF if it's urgent.

    So how much you reckon it'll cost Palmer to fly from his current digs ( a mansion somewhere on the Gold Coast ) to Perth using his leased Leer Jet ( and crew ) , just for a few meetings ( that take a hour or two each face to face and can easily be done remotely via video conferencing or Skype ) ?

    So why can't he just accept the conditions for the offered exemption ? or simply conduct any business he has via video conferencing, Skype, FaceTime or one of the other multitude of options available to him or anyone else .

    Seems to me he's behaving like Trump ( even thinks he's Australia's Trump - well both a lot in common, ie stupid, bigotted, failed / bankrupted businesses under their watch, crooks) , and thinks he's above the law and the rules that everyone else have to follow don't / shouldn't apply to him.

    The law suite is a political stunt . Only one who'll benefit will be lawyer (QC) who he will employ.
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2020
  20. -Adam-

    -Adam- Active Member

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    Well - if we're not - I've got to give him credit (as well as thanks) for not hitting back the way that he was previously - even though he continues to persist with the dribble he posts - even though all who respond seem to point how how flawed and bias his posts are.

    I still find it amazing how one sided so much of this is with media and their spokespeople. I mean - whether or not the virus did originate from a lab - just the fact that it's claimed that ground zero is within a couple of miles raises questions - questions which were immediately stamped out and claimed as being conspiracy theories if anyone dare raised questions about it.

    I have no idea myself - I don't have enough information. I just find it interesting the way that the media (and others) keep rushing to China's defense and continue to attack the most prevalent western leaders.

    I also can't help but imagine if it was exactly the same circumstance- except the outbreak was in the USA - within a couple of miles of one of Trump's biological labs instead - and that lab had been doing research and development on corona virus strains as well - whether the media and media's messengers (such as NL) would be singing the same tune of denial of any possibility - or whether other considerations would be on the table.

    Conspiracy theory or not - it seems China know how to take good opportunity of a crisis, whether it was deliberately created or not.



    I really feel for the Chinese people with CPP's oppression for so long, and now it's spreading.

    As I understand it - it's a direct violation of the agreement between the UK and Chinese government back in the day when Hong Kong was independentized from the UK.

    Are we witnessing a similar repeat to Pre-WW2 Germany - but with a nation that's already moved more chess pieces into play?

    Is Taiwan next?

    When will the rest of the world leaders stand up to China - or could they repeat their same mistakes with Hitler - especially now that it seems both the UN and WHO are in China's pocket.
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2020

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