Diamond python hatchling

Discussion in 'Herp Help' started by James Grosser, Jul 10, 2020.

  1. James Grosser

    James Grosser Not so new Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2020
    Messages:
    16
    Likes Received:
    7
    Gender:
    Male
    Hi guys, I’ve got a diamond python hatchling, had her for roughly 5 Or 6 weeks, she’s been feeding no worries won’t take mice from me but if I leave them with her she normally eats them, I’ve offered 3 pinkies to her over the past two weeks and she won’t eat, should I be concerned? Is she maybe too cold? We’ve got a heat pad on 24/7 as directed by the shop we got her from. We live in south Australia, should I consider having a heat lamp on too? Not too sure when she last she’d as she hasn’t shed while we have had her either. Any help would be appreciated cheers
     
  2. CF Constrictor

    CF Constrictor Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2019
    Messages:
    226
    Likes Received:
    147
    Gender:
    Male
    Hi J G
    What temps do you have ?
     
  3. Sdaji

    Sdaji APS Veteran APS Veteran

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2004
    Messages:
    8,231
    Likes Received:
    1,591
    Location:
    Victoria
    If she hasn't shed for at least 5-6 weeks and has been feeding regularly, she's probably just coming up for a slough. I'd just wait. Keep a close eye on her eyes to see if they're cloudy. When you're experienced you'll be able to easily see when their skin is going milky or is loose because they're just about to slough, but when you're new to it you'll find it difficult.

    Move the feed size up to something larger. Pink mice are too small for their first feeds, and by now she should be on something larger than what she started on. By mid year I'd usually have them on weaner rats. I do grow them quickly but they should at least be on medium mice/fuzzy rats by July. Don't jump straight to something that big, but go for at least fuzzy mice, and keep working your way up.
     
  4. James Grosser

    James Grosser Not so new Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2020
    Messages:
    16
    Likes Received:
    7
    Gender:
    Male
    Thankyou heaps for the help, I thought she may possibly be going to shed soon but her eyes aren’t milky from what I can tell, our jungles eyes go really milky but the diamonds eyes are different so might not appear so milky? We’ll be moving her up a size soon, the shop gave us 10 pinkies and said to feed them to her till there’s not a lump anymore and then move to fuzzies so we’ll be doing that very soon. I’ve put a small heat lamp on the hot side of her enclosure today as it has been very cold here lately and I’m worried she’s getting too cool through the night. Hopefully she sheds soon and gets back to feeding, I just stress with her being young and not wanting to eat because I want her to grow nicely and remain healthy :)
     
  5. GBWhite

    GBWhite Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2013
    Messages:
    955
    Likes Received:
    1,360
    Pics of the snake and enclosure would help us be able to help you.:)
     
  6. Sdaji

    Sdaji APS Veteran APS Veteran

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2004
    Messages:
    8,231
    Likes Received:
    1,591
    Location:
    Victoria
    Maybe they're pink rats? Pink mice will scarcely leave a detectable lump in a hatchling. If you can't see a lump at all the feed size is far too small.

    Different species, individuals and ages have eyes which go more or less milky and long more or less time to go milky then clear up again, and then there are different amounts of time between clearing up and sloughing. You'll also see folds of skin around the neck until they slough.

    I'm not a fan of lamps at night; they're unnatural and unnecessary; it's cheaper, easier and more natural to give them floor heat at night, but lamps will often still work, your choice. Two weeks is never a long time for any snake to go between meals, especially in winter. Don't worry. It can freak new keepers out, but I've had snakes I only feed about 5 times per year and even baby snakes often go weeks or months at a time without a meal during winter. Even humans living naturally went a few days between meals sometimes, and snakes go far longer than we do. I'd be far more concerned about the small feed size.
     
    CF Constrictor likes this.
  7. James Grosser

    James Grosser Not so new Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2020
    Messages:
    16
    Likes Received:
    7
    Gender:
    Male
    Ill post a photo soon
    --- Automatic Post Merged, Jul 11, 2020, Original Post Date: Jul 11, 2020 ---
    3C7AFFC7-15B8-40DA-B4BA-B9FF143AD749.jpeg E3CF5EEF-0816-4758-98F1-CC64F9E733E5.jpeg C53C4F56-C4A4-4736-A618-46499F2B6B6E.jpeg
    --- Automatic Post Merged, Jul 11, 2020 ---
    I’m going to have the lamp on during the day And turn it off at night so it still has somewhat of a natural cycle

    What we are feeding her at the moment does leave a lump in her still
     
    shaun9628 likes this.
  8. GBWhite

    GBWhite Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2013
    Messages:
    955
    Likes Received:
    1,360
    Hi James,

    Mate, as good as your intentions may be that enclosure is way to big for that little snake and being glass it is going to be near impossible to get the correct temps at this time of the year. It's too open and exposing the little snake so it would be feeling pretty vulnerable and scared. You'd be loosing ambient heat through the wire lid and the overall temperature of the enclosure would suffer.

    The main reasons small snakes don't feed are almost always due to too low a temperature and not feeling secure in their environment. Another is over handling but in this case I think you'll find it to be a combination of the former 2. Even with a heat lamp you're going to find it very difficult to maintain a constant ambient temp suitable for such a little snake in that type of enclosure.

    Simply for the welfare of the snake can I suggest you house it in a 7 to 11 litre plastic tub (similar to the one in the pics I've included) over a heat mat that covers at least a third to a half of the bottom of the tub. Just use paper towel as a substrate and provide a small water bowl at the cool with something as simple as a toilet roll or small light globe box for a hide. This way you'll find your little critter can maintain and control its thermoregulation and feel secure and by rights, once it's settled, you shouldn't have any trouble with it feeding. I know it doesn't look that nice but it is the best way to keep young snakes until they are at least 12 months old when you can move it up to the larger enclosure.

    In addition you'd be surprised at the size of the prey little critters like this can get down and I can assure you that this one would have no trouble getting a fuzzy mouse down. I've had wild hatchling Carpets around the size of this one get into my mice feeding boxes and dine on full sized mice. I wouldn't suggest you try that but just take it easy and offer it fuzzies and then slowly increase the size.

    Cheers,

    George.
    DSCN1512.JPG DSCN1514.JPG
     
  9. Herptology

    Herptology Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2019
    Messages:
    905
    Likes Received:
    721
    Gender:
    Male
    I use the same tubs as gbwhite for my hatchlings, nice and simple setup costs about 5$+heatmat+ thermostat so maybe 150$ max which will be good for a year (then you can use the heat mat + thermostat for your glass tank setup!)
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2020
    shaun9628, CF Constrictor and GBWhite like this.
  10. Sdaji

    Sdaji APS Veteran APS Veteran

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2004
    Messages:
    8,231
    Likes Received:
    1,591
    Location:
    Victoria
    You're going to get conflicting advice from different people. Don't let this freak you out; most of it will work, there are just dozens of different ways to skin a cat and most of them will work. Which one you choose it up to you.

    Personally, I would never have set it up like you have, but, now that it's done and the snake has been feeding and generally doing well in that enclosure I personally wouldn't suggest changing it other than improving the heating (nothing wrong with a basking lamp during the day for a Diamond, in fact it's ideal, but make sure the floor heat is sufficient).

    Definitely though, increase feed size. If the feed size is anywhere near not leaving a lump it is far too small. Pink mice are far too small for even a first feed for any type of Carpet Python. I would literally be feeding it weaner rats by this age (about twice the size of an adult mouse). Opinions will vary greatly on feed size and frequency, but no one will recommend pink mice for any form of Carpet Python this age. It's much too small.
     
  11. James Grosser

    James Grosser Not so new Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2020
    Messages:
    16
    Likes Received:
    7
    Gender:
    Male
    Hi guys Temperate adjustment hasn’t worked so I’ve now changed her to a 13l tub, hoping that this will get her feeding again but she hasn’t shed yet either :/ I’ve bought bigger mice now also. The reason I set her up in that enclosure was we were given it when we adopted our jungle and I mentioned this enclosure to the store we bought her from and they said it would be fine, so hopefully now I’m doing the right thing by her
     
  12. Pauls_Pythons

    Pauls_Pythons Power Seller Power Seller

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2012
    Messages:
    2,099
    Likes Received:
    2,512
    Location:
    Melbourne
    Hi James, you have had some good advice so far but just to throw my 2 bobs worth in.
    Firstly its been damn cold in SA the last few weeks, even during the day, I might be missing it as I have speed read through the post but I cant see anywhere you have told anyone what the temps are and how you are measuring them. This is critical.
    Second thing I want to add is how stubborn Diamond hatchies can be. I breed Diamonds and BHP's. BHP's are renowned for being very difficult to feed but I find I have more problems with Diamonds. They take a feed, miss 3. Take a feed, miss 4. In my opinion they need to build confidence and that can take time in some individuals. Smaller enclosure, stable temps, NO handling will all be beneficial and help them build that confidence.
     
    Herptology, Sdaji and Josiah Rossic like this.
  13. James Grosser

    James Grosser Not so new Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2020
    Messages:
    16
    Likes Received:
    7
    Gender:
    Male
    hi since changing the enclosure over I’m needing to get another temp gauge hopefully tomorrow and will be able to let yous know. It’s a pain in the Butt her not eating because it’s stressing me out! I’ve never had a hatchling before so it’s new to me but hopefully the smaller enclosure helps! Our jungle never turns down a feed so our diamond not eating is unnatural to me haha! I’ll get the temp gauge tomorrow after work and check that the temps are right
     
  14. Pauls_Pythons

    Pauls_Pythons Power Seller Power Seller

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2012
    Messages:
    2,099
    Likes Received:
    2,512
    Location:
    Melbourne
    You use the word 'gauge'. Most thermometers (gauges) are used to measure air temp which wile it can be useful I find it better to measure surface temps with a laser type non contact thermometer. (most reptile keepers use them, not perfect but accurate enough for most needs)

    While having 'enough' heat is obviously important, too much, (especially with Diamonds) can be a disaster. Do you find yours is always hugging the heat, always as far away from the heat as it can be or seems to split its time between hot and cooler areas of the tub/enclosure?

    Dont worry about them not eating so long as it appears to be healthy, I had a hatchie a couple of years ago took 18 mths before it started eating by itself. Now it never turns a feed down.
     
    Herptology and Sdaji like this.
  15. James Grosser

    James Grosser Not so new Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2020
    Messages:
    16
    Likes Received:
    7
    Gender:
    Male
    I find she tends to move from side to side but tends to spend a bit more time on the warm opposed to cold side, I’ve heard too much heat is bad. I just worry her not eating at this age will affect her growth
     
  16. Pauls_Pythons

    Pauls_Pythons Power Seller Power Seller

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2012
    Messages:
    2,099
    Likes Received:
    2,512
    Location:
    Melbourne
    Dont worry about growth. She will still grow once established. Period of downtime from eating during winter is normal for snakes. Older and young.
     
    Kyle Hamilton likes this.
  17. James Grosser

    James Grosser Not so new Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2020
    Messages:
    16
    Likes Received:
    7
    Gender:
    Male
    Hey guys looks like the smaller enclosure worked a treat, she’s been in there for about a week and ate tonight finally! Thanks heaps for all your help :)
     
    Kaiwei, shaun9628, GBWhite and 3 others like this.
  18. shaun9628

    shaun9628 New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2020
    Messages:
    8
    Likes Received:
    5
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Oakhurst....N.S.W.
    Great to hear your diamond is feeding.I have had a diamond python for about 5 weeks myself...Thanks to everyone who replied to your post.
     

Share This Page