Diamond Python Medical Assistance

Discussion in 'Herp Help' started by Starlord, Feb 14, 2016.

  1. Starlord

    Starlord Not so new Member

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    I have no idea how this happened, I've looked around the enclose at every nook and cranny and cant find any remnants of skin.
    Picture: http://imgur.com/6zudprC

    The picture was taken before the visit to the vet (not a herpetologist), since then the following has been done:
    • The vet has stitched according to him "about half of the wound" (i say according to him because i haven't seen the wound yet since he's got a dressing on).
    • Been quarantined from him normal enclosure, right now he's in a plastic terrarium that we used when we first got him 5 years ago. It has the following: Paper towel substrate, small box for a hide, small water dish and a ventilated lid.

    The main questions i have are the following:
    1. How do i go about changing the dressing and how often should i do so, also the materials i require for doing so.
    2. How often do i bathe him in a diluted beta dine solution and apply antibiotic (and the best way of doing so).
    3. I have no idea what to do when he needs to shed, when ever that may be.
    4. Feeding.

    Here's the list of services (as it appears on the paper) that the vet provided for anyone that's interested
    Analgesia medications
    Pharmacy
    Metacam injecting 5Mg/Ml - by a subcutaneous
    injection
    Anaesthesia/sedation Medications
    Pharmacy
    Alfaxan Cd Rtu Dog & Cat - by intravenous
    Injection
    Wound Clip & Clean

    I'm planning on seeing a actual qualified herpetologist this coming Saturday and i'll continue to update this thread when i can.
    Any and all help would be much appreciated, thank you.
     
  2. pinkmus

    pinkmus Well-Known Member

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    I'd try and get him to a herp vet a bit sooner depending on how well the wound has been/(realistically) could have been stitched up. I wouldn't feed him till Saturday when you can get another opinion.

    It really depends on the type of dressing applied and how much of the wound has been left open on when it should be changed. I'd be inclined to call the vet that applied it and ask him/her. Just try and keep the area as clean as you can. Again I'd ask the veterinarian that prescribed the ointment on how often it should be used if you haven't been given specific instructions.

    Later on, as the wounds heal he may need help with shedding with gentle soaking. If you're making an appointment with a herp vet I'm sure they will be happy to give advice on how to manage the wound till you can take your pet in for a consultation.

    Goodluck. I hope he/she recovers well.

    -Will
     
  3. Burgo89

    Burgo89 Active Member

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    Holy **** that looks brutal, could it be a burn?
     
  4. Starlord

    Starlord Not so new Member

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    Thanks for the reply, I fed him 12 days ago so and the vet never prescribed anything but i do have some Bactroban mupirocin 2% handy. I've used it on him before and it worked well also I've read it's safe.
    Thanks again.
     
  5. ronhalling

    ronhalling Subscriber Subscriber

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    [MENTION=42191]Starlord[/MENTION], Could you please include a few pics of the enclosure from a few different angles, as [MENTION=40472]Burgo89[/MENTION] suggested could it have possibly been a burn, the skin does not really look like it has torn, the area's where the skin is missing seem to have circular borders like you would get with full thickness burns, as far as treatment is concerned i would head Veterinary advice as the more you muck around with it using all different forms of advice from a forum the more likely a very bad infection could occur. :) ....................Ron
     
  6. pythoninfinite

    pythoninfinite Subscriber Subscriber

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    Man that's a serious injury! Looks like the animal has been partially skinned - it looks like what would happen if something fell on it and it skinned itself trying to extricate itself. If this was a human, the only option would be skin grafts, but given the extent of the skin loss, I'd rate the chances of survival as pretty slim. A couple of points, the animal actually looks pretty underfed, even emaciated, but DO NOT, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES offer it food until healing is very evident and well underway - at least a month to six weeks. Keep the exposed area dry at all times (unless applying medication), that means no water to assist shedding - water will enhance the chances of wound infection many times over. I would offer it water in a bowl, perhaps 3 times a week, for an hour, and under a watchful eye during this time. The animal should not be allowed to get the wound wet under any circumstances, and this may happen if you leave a water bowl in the enclosure 24/7. If it gets that far, let the animal deal with any shedding issues itself, it may have adhesions as it sheds, but if you intervene, you risk doing far more damage, and any remaining skin will eventually be sloughed off with later sheds.

    It actually looks like what happens when snakes get caught up in sticky tape - it just rips off huge tracts of skin...

    Jamie
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2016
  7. GBWhite

    GBWhite Well-Known Member

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    No way is this a burn Ron. I had a carpet suffer an almost identical injury when I was a kid and a mate was transporting it back to my place in a pillow slip on a bicycle. He was carrying the bag in his hands and it fell off the handlebars and into the spokes causing the snake to be skinned, almost identical to the one in this pic. I have to agree with Jamie where he states that the chance of survival is slim.

    George.
     
  8. saximus

    saximus Almost Legendary

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    I agree with the old guys that it looks more like a tear from being caught between something or on sticky tape than a burn.

    Is there anywhere in the enclosure that it could have gotten stuck? Is there a sharp lip on the door/lid? Is there a lot of heavy "stuff" in the enclosure like hides, logs etc?

    The vet should have provided answers to your first three questions and to be honest I would be hesitant to take any advice on any of them from a forum.
     
  9. Burgo89

    Burgo89 Active Member

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    If it was from a sharp object would it not retreat at the first feeling of pain the size of the injury would suggest it was in contact for awhile?
     
  10. Starlord

    Starlord Not so new Member

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    [MENTION=41820]pythoninfinite[/MENTION] Thanks for the reply, I'm not sure if i clarified that the vet did stitch up about half the wound (With the skin that was twirled up near the edges). I can assure you there is not a single trace of adhesive in the enclose which is this https://www.reptileone.com.au/products/housing/46161bk the only notable difference is the dimensions which are: 1200mm H x 600mm W x 900mm L. Everything else you said i'll utilize and keep in mind. You've helped me answers questions 3 and 4;however no one has answered 1 and 2.
    But again, thank you for your help.
     
    Tony Stark likes this.
  11. ronhalling

    ronhalling Subscriber Subscriber

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    Thanks George, just chucking the possibility of a burn out there to try and get a picture of what could have happened and if [MENTION=42191]Starlord[/MENTION], were to put up some more pics we might be able to do a kind of risk assessment and identify something in the enclosure that could have caused that terrible injury, The only other time i have seen an injury like that was when a girl posted in a facebook group a pic of her CP that had wrapped around a heat bulb before the timer turned it on and it got stuck to the bulb and ended up tearing a heap of skin off it's body very much like the pic Starlord posted, but in the i seen there was more underlying injury. Regards. :) .........................Ron
     
  12. pythoninfinite

    pythoninfinite Subscriber Subscriber

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    You need to get the answers to 1 & 2 from the treating vet - it is remiss of him/her not to give you instructions for ongoing wound management. Just as a vet won't pick up the batten and run with an issue started by another vet (except in mutually agreed circumstances), participants on this site aren't qualified to answer that question.

    Remember that the skin can only regenerate inwards from the edges to cover the wound - the bare muscle areas will not produce skin of their own accord, so it will be a very long process, and a long time to manage the potential for infection.

    Jamie
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2016
  13. Snapped

    Snapped Subscriber Subscriber

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    Geez. that's a shocking injury, the skin has to be somewhere, it can't just disappear....I'd be taking everything out of the enclosure and going over it again, looking where it could have happened, you might have missed something.

    I really hope the snake pulls through.
     
  14. alexbee

    alexbee Not so new Member

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    Looks very malnourished. Hate seeing animals like that.
     
  15. pythoninfinite

    pythoninfinite Subscriber Subscriber

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    Yes, I noted in my first post that the animal looks emaciated - any reason for that, maybe a poor feeder? If that's a paper towel the snake is on, and the snake is five years old, as you suggest, then there has been a serious amount of underfeeding over that time. A 5yo Diamond/Carpet should be far larger and more robust than that animal, at least 1.5 metres. What have you been feeding it, and how often?

    It's hard to imagine that the cause of such an horrific wound isn't obvious in the enclosure, and it's hard to imagine that the animal would cause such a gaping tear and loss of skin under its own power. It would have to be from getting trapped or stuck somewhere, and it's hard to believe that the pain caused by such entrapment didn't stop the snake from doing more damage. I would say that there would have to have been some element of force involved to do that sort of damage.

    Jamie
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2016
  16. Pauls_Pythons

    Pauls_Pythons Power Seller Power Seller

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    I would be afraid of putting the animal into shock by applying any betadine solution to an injury like this over such a large area of the animals body. I agree with Jamie, application of any treatment & changing of dressings needs to be done under the consultation of a vet.
    Never have I seen such a bad injury & the owner has no idea of how it occurred. Also the point that you just happen to have Bactroban mupirocin 2% on hand & have used it before on such a young animal suggests there might be some husbandry issues that need to be resolved.
    I have a feeling there is much more to this story that has yet to come out.
     
  17. Starlord

    Starlord Not so new Member

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    @Pauls_Pythons I don't know what you by more to this story has yet to come out, it's happened over night while I've been asleep and noticed the morning after. about the bactroban, I read about it before hand (here's the link http://www.timsreptiles.co.za/reptile-keeping-advise/reptile-health-care) and from my own observations with it in past and it was quite effective.

    - - - Updated - - -

    - - - Updated - - -

    - - - Updated - - -
    [MENTION=41820]pythoninfinite[/MENTION] Actually he is 1.5 meters, and my mistake; i think he's closer to 4 years old. I've been feeding him hoppers every 3 weeks.

    It's very strange, and even can only conceive a few scenarios that could've happened, but do have any tips on setting up an enclosure in safest way possible? just so this never happens again.
    Thanks again.
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2016
  18. meako

    meako Not so new Member

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    First glance at the injury in that photo and I thought -merely speculative observation- that he's scrawny looking.My next hypothesis is that he might have eaten that skin himself. Why do i think such a stupid sounding thing? Because I have a foster child Bredli who when I first got him was so snappy he used to bite himself in his manic cage defensive state-he was literally insane -hitting the glass repeatedly and generally going bananas. Thankfully he got to know me better and has settled down a huge amount.
    I have been constructing a new home for him and one of the major concerns is the removal of screw and bolt sharps within the enclosure.
    I have seen similar injuries on a bluetongue I had who shed incompletely and also de-gloved his feet. The vet I took him to removed large tracts of un shed skin leaving that "raw burgermeat flesh exposed" Happy to say he made a full recovery.
    Sorry for going off track -I also think a 1.5M diamond should be on large rats and quails -not hoppers which might explain the theory of undernourishment
    I hope he recovers quickly.
     
  19. pythoninfinite

    pythoninfinite Subscriber Subscriber

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    Four years, five years, makes no difference at that age. A four year old python like that should be on medium to large rats about once a fortnight - hopper rats are WAY too small for this animal (please don't tell me you were feeding it hopper mice...). It is clearly very emaciated, almost starving - I wonder who you're getting your advice from regarding your husbandry practices. With all due respect, I would say that your management of this unfortunate animal is negligent at best, you obviously haven't informed yourself about management of such an animal. I know you came on here to seek help with the major trauma your animal has suffered, but it is obvious that the animal has been in dire straits for a very long time. If that is an embossed paper towel on the bottom of the tub in the photo, it is evident just how malnourished it is.
     
  20. meako

    meako Not so new Member

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    a large adult rat and a couple of hoppers for dessert should get hoovered by that snake every 10 days or so. Particularly at this warm time of year.
    Looking at the photo again and seeing the skin looking a bit loose and baggy makes me think undernourished. Also look at its head -it looks younger than 4 with that skweensy neck and big head. A healthy Diamond at that age would be fairly close to full grown and a lot plumper.
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2016

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