Diamonds and Temperature

[Linus]

yeah you have to be careful liccy as the snake will get sick if it is not warm enough to digest food properly and maintain body temp. Guess it was lucky for the snake that it was summer/spring when it had no heating.

They won't make any noise to alert you they are freezing or sick!

 

[instar]

Hello Rob, been reading this thread with greatest intrest. Could you please clarify a few things for me?.
It occures to me if you dont use a thermostat, you must either:
(a) use more ventilation than normal Or
(b) use low wattage bulbs or
(c) both.

If this is the case, then you have low watt bulbs running 24/7, surely these would be blowing regularly? I would think in terms of energy/cost efficiency, that changes of bulbs so often would be a pain in the bum. Or do bulbs last longer without going on and off so much?
Do you just turn the heat off when the days get hotter?
You dont specify sp when you mention the no thermostat method, im wondering how you might manage for species that like it hot?
Cheers

 

[dee4]

Instar, I rung rob today with similar thoughts. (b) is basically what Rob seems to do. With fine tuning and knowing when it is going to be hot enough to turn his lights off. He does run them 24/7 unless cooling, so in theory if you work it out, as an example: 1X4ft unit with lets say 3x40w globes = 120w at any time those globes are on. Compared to, from what I understand is a 1x40w max(on 24/7) obviously it would depend on the time of year. The thermo that most of use turns on and off which would weeken the globe x3 compared to 1 on all the time which may blow every month...??? How often would depend on the globe I suppose.
All in all it would be a little cheaper with 1 unit.

With a bank of 3x(4ftx2ft) units on top of each other it could be cheaper with the middle of the 3 not needing globes due to the heat emitted from the top and the bottom being enough to give it a heat spot the same as a heat mat could do. So this would mean you only need 2 globes in 3 units, 4 ft long instead of 9 globes in your average 4x2ft unit. The globe position being on the back intead of the roof for max emition of heat to the unit it is in but also to the above or below unit.
These units would be divided with a wall up the middle to give the reptile a heated side and a cooling side at the same time depending on what your reptile chose. Hence, Rob's theoery on not cooking your reptile with over heating if your thermo should brake down and your reptile either way has an escape.
It seems to give the reptile a choice as in the wild rather that what we can supply to it.

 

[instar]

With a bank of 3x(4ftx2ft) units on top of each other it could be cheaper with the middle of the 3 not needing heating due to the heat emitted from the top and the bottom being enough to give it a heat spot the same as a heat mat could do

I can see this might work for really terrestrial sp, but for others, they seem to like heat from above.
Its a confusing world of choices! I suppose in the end we all do what works best for us. Perhaps it might be easier on new folk to be given a standard set of basic minimum needs for reptiles, along with a list of various types i.e 'heat source' { ceramic, bulb, heat tape, heatmat, heat cord, heated hide}with a pic of each an explanation of how it works.
This way, with the correct information, specific temp req etc of the sp they intend to keep, they can make an informed choice/s of their own, rather than be bombarded with many complex setup ideas etc. Just my 2.7cents!

 

[NoOne]

The biggest globes i run in any cage a 75wt, i have all my cages in banks of 3 or 4 enclosures.
The biggest cage i heat with 75wt globes is 1200x600x600, i get a hot spot of about 34c and a cool end of 27 which i can make higher or lower in about 2 seconds.
I use 2 therms to run up to 7 or 8 cages, i run a simple on/off stat and set it a bit higher than the wanted temp. I then plug in a proportional stat and set it to the temp i want, then plug in the amount of cages i want.

This allows me to have a back up stat incase the " working" stat fails, this means i have the temps i want all the time without me having to adjust anything, double that with a photocell (magic eye) and you have night drops, very easy low effort setup with nearly no chance of failing.

Once setup you do nearly nothing do control the temp it's all done for you.
Thats my way of doing things and i know alot of other people that do the same.

 

[instar]

How do find setting temps for diff sp in a bank Steve? If they run off one stat? Im thinking of using an imit and doing likewise, i figure they will bask longer if needed etc as long as theres a good gradient?

 

[NoOne]

I run 1 stat per species inny and temps don't vary from top to bottom. The bottom cage gets cooler so i just use a high wattage globe.

 

[instar]

Oh ok thanks mate, think I misunderstood this....

I use 2 therms to run up to 7 or 8 cages, i run a simple on/off stat and set it a bit higher than the wanted temp.

I assumed different species.

 

[Greebo]

uv lamps are proven to be usless, if you choose to use one, your animal has to sit within 2-3 inches of the bulb to get any real uv from it.

I'm sorry? Who proved they are useless? Can you point me to the source of this information. I would like to read the findings myself.

 

[Guest]

I had some little jungles a few years back and had a blue light in the cage for heat and i was using a thermostat.It would turn the light back on and you could see the snakes eyes move with shock in my oppinion the change in light really annoys them heaps.If the light dont go on and off it will last longer and you just have to find the right wattage.Some people use low wattage heat tape and just leave it on and they dont cool reptiles cause the air temperature drops at night.Come to think of it i think possibly the only thermostat longtom has would be on his incubator and i can think of several others.

 

[NoOne]

You can run as many cages as you want doing it this way as long as the total wattage doesn't go over the stats wattage control.
The other thing with proportional stats is the globes life is increased alot i have had normal spotlights last about 7months.

 

[The Rock]

duqaduqabowbow,- 27 degree cool area?. God Im glad Im not one of your animals. Thats a recipie for metobolic burn-out,(if thats the rigth term),as someone else has already pointed out.
Instar,-pythons are as a rule nocturnal and during there most active time of the year they rely mainly on lying on warm surfaces,ie rocks,roads,hard packed dirt etc to increase body temps the only reason your animals seem to perfer down heat is they have to, they have no choice. It realy doesnt matter, they will thrive either way.
Rob

 

[NoOne]

Well my snakes are going fine have been for years, using proportional stats means thats the highest temp in the day time cycle, it warms up to that during the morning when the hotspot is at it's hottest then it cools in the afternoon then goes on night cycle.
I've been doing it this way for years and my snakes are in perfect heath and breed so i can't see a problem.
Most of the time they are under the hotspot until around midday when they move off to the middle or cool end of the cage. then they are back under the hotspot once it cools down.
If i want to i can change the cool end temp but i watch what my snakes do if they are up the cold end all the time they are to hot if they are at the hot end all the time they are to cold.
I am refering to summer temps to, it's different during cooling obviously.

 

[instar]

Instar,-pythons are as a rule nocturnal and during there most active time of the year they rely mainly on lying on warm surfaces,ie rocks,roads,hard packed dirt etc to increase body temps the only reason your animals seem to perfer down heat is they have to, they have no choice. It realy doesnt matter, they will thrive either way.
Rob

Actually I wasnt just referring to pythons Rob, I was thinking beardys, ewd's etc. I would think heat from above would be much like sunshine?

 

[The Rock]

Instar,- Sorry, yes diurnal animals really need down heat.
duqaduqabowbow,-not enough temp gradiant for my likeing, plus metobolic burn-out dosent happen over nigth in most cases it takes a few years. A lot of captive pythons have died over the years for no apparent reason, one minute healthy the next, well dead. A lot of these unexplained deaths are more than likely due to this.
Rob

 

[NoOne]

Like i said Rob, it's not that hot all day thats the hottest it gets to during the day cycle, around midday, then it cools slowly until the night cycle comes on.
All my stats are is an automatic dimmer switch, dims the light keep the right temp.
They are widely used all over the world and used in many different ways and are very effective.
Theres more than one way to keep reptiles, this all depends on your situatuion.
Your way of keeping isn't the first time i've heard of it, alot of people in QLD use this method, thats fine i have no problems with it, i have a cage used in a similar way, but its not my prefered way of keeping.

 

[pugsly]

Well said dugadugabowbow, lets just agree to disagree.

Clearly more than 1 way of keeping snakes works, i spoke to bigguy on the weekend he said the same thing, his way works fine and has for many many years, and im sure rocks does as well, it doesnt mean it is the only way.

Lets move on..

 

[The Rock]

I have never said its the only way, quite the opposite if you go thru my posts. But I do, in my OPINION, believe it to be far more effective, cheaper to set up and run, safer,and enables a larger temp gradiant. Over the years Ive used both methods and favor this method over thermostats by a county mile. I know of a number southerners that use this method with 100 percent sucsses. So please every one, stop saying that because I live in NSW or VIC I have to use one. That sounds to me like justification for wasteing money on a thermostat. ( cant help myself can I, ha ha). Should get a few bites from that one.
Rob

 

[Kenshin]

hey rob can i suggest you make afew "caresheets" or articals to submit to the site for your methods especialy for diamonds would be really good for reference wise i know id sure as hell appreciate them

 

[stencorp69]

The trouble with thermostats is that they turn on and off to much which drops and rises their body temp to much and this can easily make the reptile sicker

Hey Rocky,

With a heat light, controlled by a thermostat, directed at a rock (or other suitable thermal mass) within the cage - would'nt it provide a stable "hot" spot for the snake, regardless of how much the light was thermostatically swtiched off and on in an over all temperature regime? The rock or termal mass would not change as significantly as the air temp.

Also any chance you can show us some pics of your enclosure bank and how the heat lights are positioned?

Stephen