Evolving from monkeys?

Discussion in 'Chit Chat' started by Mo-Cheynei, Oct 9, 2011.

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  1. AirCooled

    AirCooled Subscriber Subscriber

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    Did aliens chop the legs of the lizards and goannas to make snakes?
     
  2. fugawi

    fugawi Well-Known Member

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    Australis...When you say common ancester, do you mean a mammal, somewhere between a shrew and a lemur that had cousins in different environments and in distant locations, then yes. When they say recent, if they mean in the last ten million years then again yes. As far as Aliens.....probably not, more a product of the environment but I have to leave the door open due to a lack of evidence disproving it. I have to remember that almost all ancient myths, legends and religions are based on an entity that came from the heavens and created humans, so I can't logically discount it.

    When I say a product of the environment, I mean natural evolution but we just haven't found our direct descendants along our direct line yet.
     
  3. Australis

    Australis Almost Legendary

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    Unusual take on thinking logically. For me thinking it over logically i would straight away discount the possibilities you mentioned given there is ZERO evidence to support those ideas.
    A few weeks ago i had to watch some Aboriginal (Australian) videos, one told the story of how echidnas came to be, this involved the spines being made of spears! It was a nice video, however it didn't register as a possibility in my mind for an alternative echidna evolution.

    Also the burden of proof isnt on science to find evidence against every crazy idea people come up with. If science cant disprove a magic unicorn didn't shake its super dooper magical horn to help guide human evolution.. does it make it a valid idea? plausible until proven otherwise?
     
  4. We would need to be capable of forward time travel to see what our decendants are like. If you mean our ancestors there are plenty of examples of this in the fossil record it is just not complete as fossilistation is very rare.
     
  5. abnrmal91

    abnrmal91 Very Well-Known Member

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    Just putting it out there that god is the creater of all beings. Lol just kidding it's all a load of crap haha
     
  6. alrightknight

    alrightknight Active Member

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    Thats the beauty of science isnt it. We don't know the answers there are gaps we can debate about this but we can all admit that we dont know everything. theories are just that theories, I hope one day we see that darwins theory becomes "the law of evolution".
    As far as why our cousins have not evolved as much as us has a very well accepted theory, that us as humans have prohibited other apes from being able to do so. Natural selection let us take over we were the top of the food chain there was nothing to stop us advancing.
     
  7. Australis

    Australis Almost Legendary

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  8. MC-Boks

    MC-Boks Subscriber Subscriber

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    I’ve always found this passage to be the most eloquent description of ‘descent’, and it doesn’t just apply to humans, but is applicable to any living thing at any given point in history. It comes from the master of making science accessible to all; Richard Dawkins, and is taken from his book A Devil’s Chaplin. Happenings are sometimes organised at which thousands of people hold hands and form a human chain, say from coast to coast of the United States, in aid of some cause or charity. Let us imagine setting one up along the equator, across the width of our home continent of Africa. It is a special kind of chain, involving parents and children, and we will have to play tricks with time in order to imagine it. You stand on the shore of the Indian Ocean in southern Somalia, facing north, and in your left hand you hold the right hand of your mother. In turn she holds the hand of her mother, your grandmother. Your grandmother holds her mother's hand, and so on. The chain wends its way up the beach, into the arid scrubland and westwards on towards the Kenya border.How far do we have to go until we reach our common ancestor with the chimpanzees? It is a surprisingly short way. Allowing one yard per person, we arrive at the ancestor we share with chimpanzees in under 300 miles. We have hardly started to cross the continent; we are still not half way to the Great Rift Valley. The ancestor is standing well to the east of Mount Kenya, and holding in her hand an entire chain of her lineal descendants, culminating in you standing on the Somali beach.The daughter that she is holding in her right hand is the one from whom we are descended. Now the arch-ancestress turns eastward to face the coast, and with her left hand grasps her other daughter, the one from whom the chimpanzees are descended (or son, of course, but let's stick to females for convenience). The two sisters are facing one another, and each holding their mother by the hand. Now the second daughter, the chimpanzee ancestress, holds her daughter's hand, and a new chain is formed, proceeding back towards the coast. First cousin faces first cousin, second cousin faces second cousin, and so on. By the time the folded-back chain has reached the coast again, it consists of modern chimpanzees. You are face to face with your chimpanzee cousin, and you are joined to her by an unbroken chain of mothers holding hands with daughters. If you walked up the line like an inspecting general -past Homo erectus, Homo habilis, perhaps Australopithecus afarensis -and down again the other side (the intermediates on the chimpanzee side are unnamed because, as it happens, no fossils have been found), you would nowhere find any sharp discontinuity. Daughters would resemble mothers just as much (or as little) as they always do. Mothers would love daughters, and feel affinity with them, just as they always do. And this hand-in-hand continuum, joining us seamlessly to chimpanzees, is so short that it barely makes it past the hinterland of Africa, the mother continent.Dawkins, R. 2003 A Devil’s Chaplin, Orion Books Ltd, London

     
  9. fugawi

    fugawi Well-Known Member

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    I personally like Sherlock Holmes creed of logic......"If you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable must be the truth". As far as "Aliens" etc, they still remain within the realms of possibility, not impossibility, so I cannot discount them as yet...however improbable.
    It may be interesting to note that Apes have 24 pairs of chromosome whereas we only have 23.

    I should mention that to get apes and humans genetically similar would take an amazing piece of genetic engineering whereby you would need to fuse the 9th and 14th ape chromosomes and flip them to give you something similar to the human 12th chromosome.
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2011
  10. grimbeny

    grimbeny Very Well-Known Member

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    This is why science incorporates falsafiability. It is impossible to prove that aliens do not exist. You would need to be looking at every part of the universe at once, and even then someone could turn around and say they exist but you just cant see them. To make a scientific claim you need to suggest what experiment could be conducted to prove the claim wrong. For example if we found a rabbit fossil that was undeniably from a time before mammals existed we could say that evolution as we know it is wrong. Or if a chimpanzee gave birth to a human baby we could again say our current theory of evolution by natural selection is wrong. It wouldnt mean that science is wrong, just that we need to develope a new model.
     
  11. Australis

    Australis Almost Legendary

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    Well i guess my magical unicorn did it..however improbable :lol:

    We are still genetically similar... you are really going the pseudo-science angle now :|

    Check this video out.
    ape chromosome - YouTube

    "i should mention" that every person i have met who didn't believe in evolution had the same thing in common, they didn't even know what it was :lol:
     
  12. saximus

    saximus Almost Legendary

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    Bingo
     
  13. Grogshla

    Grogshla Very Well-Known Member

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    there iz evidence the government deny it though mate.
     
  14. Australis

    Australis Almost Legendary

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    Same with the magic unicorns :(
     
  15. Grogshla

    Grogshla Very Well-Known Member

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    :lol: nice one kiddo
     
  16. Wally

    Wally Subscriber Subscriber Power Seller

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    Can someone tell the aliens to top up my water bowl............ I'm thirsty. Wouldn't mind a feed either.
     
  17. fugawi

    fugawi Well-Known Member

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    :lol::rolleyes:I shall immediately send "The Greys" over with some Venusian Purple Ale........Watch the skies.:rolleyes::lol:

    I must put Magical Unicorns in the impossible file due to the myth coming from descriptions of a Black Rhino and later from Denmark the horns are actually Narwhal horns.:lol::lol:

    And Australis....to "say" they are genetically similar is the pseudo science. Saying that that apes have 24 pairs of chromosomes while we have only 23 pairs is actually a verifiable, proven, scientific fact. Unfortunately what you don't understand is that you don't just pick up or drop a pair of chromosomes while swinging through the trees one day. The ancestors of the Apes had 24 pairs of chromosomes and the ancestors of us had 23 pairs, meaning that our ancestors were similar but slightly different to the Ape ancestors. Someone brought up lions and tigers, that is a good example.....Apes would be like lions, tigers and cheetahs, all Felines, while we would be like wolves, Canines. They had similar but slightly different ancestors.
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2011
  18. Australis

    Australis Almost Legendary

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    That is just what the magic space unicorns want you to think... :lol:
    Sorry man but magic unicorns have just as much evidence as aliens being involved in helping evolution. Both being ridiculous and all.

    Ok for starters i never disputed the numbers of chromosomes, i even posted a video supporting and explaining this! you should watch it.

    There is nothing pseudo-science about my comment of Humans and apes being genetically similar.. with genetic similarity being between 96-98% comparing humans to modern chimps. We are more genetically similar to chimps, than mice are to rats!!!!!

    Further reading:
    Comparing the chimpanzee and human genomes | The Human Genome

    Chimps, Humans 96 Percent the Same, Gene Study Finds
     
  19. waruikazi

    waruikazi Legendary

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    Perhaps not swinging through the trees but in utero picking up an extra chromosome (just in humans, not to mention other great apes) isn't unheard of.

    Fugawi it is pretty well documented and researched when the human lineage split from the chimps lineage, around about 6 million years ago. For this to have happened we must have had a common ancestor, the exact same animal spawned us and the chimps line. Why do have such a hard time accepting this?

    As for Aliens... come on mate

     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2011
  20. fugawi

    fugawi Well-Known Member

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    OK....Here we go.....Firstly, some of you people need to read posts before commenting and flaming. Secondly, let me clarify for those that have not fully read my posts and have made wrong assumptions. I DID NOT bring up aliens. I simply stated that I keep an open mind as far as aliens are concerned. I DO believe that Homo Sapiens EVOLVED through a currently unknown and unfound Australopithecus species, through an also unknown and unfound Ardipithecus species back to a currently unknown and unfound pseudo sub pre ape type of mammalian common ancestor to the ape group. Of course all this is conjecture due to the fact we have yet to find evidence of a DIRECT ancestor of Homo Sapiens through Australopithecus or Ardipithecus. Nor have we found any evidence of the legendary "Missing Link" common ancestor to the other apes. At this moment in time, science is still giving its "Best Guess" on human and ape ancestory by looking at the cousins of our direct ancestors. Right at this moment a Paleoanthropologist named Lee Berger from the University of Witwatersrand in J/burg, South Africa is digging up bones of what is possibly the first intermediate (called Australopithecus Sediba) which could link the older Australopithecus (Lucy like) species with Homo Erectus. This will be the first time science has found any evidence to link the two species.
    So if you haven't already guessed, I have spread out in front of me, thorough, up to the minute current information on this subject so beware those who seek to flame.
    Amazing how all this started when I corrected someone oversimplifying by saying Lemur to monkey, monkey to chimp, chimp to human. I think that thinking went out at the beginning of LAST century.
     
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