Evolving from monkeys?

Discussion in 'Chit Chat' started by Mo-Cheynei, Oct 9, 2011.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Scleropages

    Scleropages Very Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2006
    Messages:
    4,702
    Likes Received:
    5
    Location:
    Brissy
    haha I can sum it up in once sentence....


    MAGICK UNICORNS and Longqi's FURRY BACK = ALIENS!!!!!! 0.O
     
  2. Australis

    Australis Almost Legendary

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2006
    Messages:
    5,468
    Likes Received:
    6
    Location:
    Central Coast NSW
  3. FAY

    FAY Guest

    Austy is definitely an alien. Just look at his avatar (taken of himself with his own camera) he tells me!
     
  4. Australis

    Australis Almost Legendary

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2006
    Messages:
    5,468
    Likes Received:
    6
    Location:
    Central Coast NSW
    My avatar evolved on earth... unless aliens helped dinosaurs evolve as well :lol: ... sorry i mean "magic sky daddy" unicorns.
     
  5. crocdoc

    crocdoc Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 11, 2008
    Messages:
    491
    Likes Received:
    5
    Location:
    Sydney
    Just out of curiosity, you keep mentioning these three major changes:
    What were those three changes and what makes them objectively major?

    I do have a question about aliens, though - why are they so fond of Iowa cornfields inhabited by photographers with shaky hands? Also, WHAT HAVE THEY DONE WITH ELVIS?!
     
  6. Bluetongue1

    Bluetongue1 Guest

    The following data is from the link that you provided. List of transitional fossils - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    [TABLE] border="1" style="border: currentColor; border-collapse: collapse"
    |-
    | style="width: 213px" | FOSSIL
    | style="width: 220px" | TIME SPAN (years before present)
    | width="205" style="border-width: 1pt 1pt 1pt 0px; border-style: solid solid solid none; border-color: windowtext windowtext windowtext rgb(0, 0, 0); padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 153.9pt; background-color: transparent" | CRANIAL CAPACITY
    |-
    | width="213" style="border-width: 0px 1pt 1pt; border-style: none solid solid; border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) windowtext windowtext; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 159.6pt; background-color: transparent" | Ardipithecus
    | width="220" style="border-width: 0px 1pt 1pt 0px; border-style: none solid solid none; border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) windowtext windowtext rgb(0, 0, 0); padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 165.3pt; background-color: transparent" | 4.4 M
    | width="205" style="border-width: 0px 1pt 1pt 0px; border-style: none solid solid none; border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) windowtext windowtext rgb(0, 0, 0); padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 153.9pt; background-color: transparent" | 300 – 350 cc
    |-
    | width="213" style="border-width: 0px 1pt 1pt; border-style: none solid solid; border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) windowtext windowtext; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 159.6pt; background-color: transparent" | Australopithecus
    | width="220" style="border-width: 0px 1pt 1pt 0px; border-style: none solid solid none; border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) windowtext windowtext rgb(0, 0, 0); padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 165.3pt; background-color: transparent" | 4.4 – 2.0 M
    | width="205" style="border-width: 0px 1pt 1pt 0px; border-style: none solid solid none; border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) windowtext windowtext rgb(0, 0, 0); padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 153.9pt; background-color: transparent" | 375 – 500 cc
    |-
    | width="213" style="border-width: 0px 1pt 1pt; border-style: none solid solid; border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) windowtext windowtext; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 159.6pt; background-color: transparent" | Homo habilis
    | width="220" style="border-width: 0px 1pt 1pt 0px; border-style: none solid solid none; border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) windowtext windowtext rgb(0, 0, 0); padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 165.3pt; background-color: transparent" | 2.5 – 1.5 M
    | width="205" style="border-width: 0px 1pt 1pt 0px; border-style: none solid solid none; border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) windowtext windowtext rgb(0, 0, 0); padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 153.9pt; background-color: transparent" | 510 – 800 cc
    |-
    | width="213" style="border-width: 0px 1pt 1pt; border-style: none solid solid; border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) windowtext windowtext; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 159.6pt; background-color: transparent" | Homo erectus
    | width="220" style="border-width: 0px 1pt 1pt 0px; border-style: none solid solid none; border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) windowtext windowtext rgb(0, 0, 0); padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 165.3pt; background-color: transparent" | 2.0 – 1.0 M
    | width="205" style="border-width: 0px 1pt 1pt 0px; border-style: none solid solid none; border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) windowtext windowtext rgb(0, 0, 0); padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 153.9pt; background-color: transparent" | 900 – 1100 cc
    |-
    | width="638" style="border-width: 0px 1pt 1pt; border-style: none solid solid; border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) windowtext windowtext; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 6.65in; background-color: transparent" | To complete the picture -
    |-
    | width="213" style="border-width: 0px 1pt 1pt; border-style: none solid solid; border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) windowtext windowtext; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 159.6pt; background-color: transparent" | Homo sapiens neaderthalensis
    | width="220" style="border-width: 0px 1pt 1pt 0px; border-style: none solid solid none; border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) windowtext windowtext rgb(0, 0, 0); padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 165.3pt; background-color: transparent" | 350,000 – 30,000
    | width="205" style="border-width: 0px 1pt 1pt 0px; border-style: none solid solid none; border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) windowtext windowtext rgb(0, 0, 0); padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 153.9pt; background-color: transparent" | 1450 cc
    |-
    | width="213" style="border-width: 0px 1pt 1pt; border-style: none solid solid; border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) windowtext windowtext; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 159.6pt; background-color: transparent" | Homo sapiens sapiens
    | width="220" style="border-width: 0px 1pt 1pt 0px; border-style: none solid solid none; border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) windowtext windowtext rgb(0, 0, 0); padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 165.3pt; background-color: transparent" | 200.000 - present
    | width="205" style="border-width: 0px 1pt 1pt 0px; border-style: none solid solid none; border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) windowtext windowtext rgb(0, 0, 0); padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 153.9pt; background-color: transparent" | 1350 cc
    |-
    [/TABLE]
    From my reading of the information you have provided, I determine a time span of around 4 million years in which the brain size of humans, (as indicated by the cranial capacity of skulls) increased to its present level.

    10,000 years ago human society changed immensely with the Agrarian Revolution. People were able to produce plant foods (grains) in large quantities, so much so that they could store food and were no longer tied to collecting it on a daily basis. Domestication of animals followed as there was sufficient food to feed them as well. More importantly, it allowed for individuals to take up and develop other pursuits so the roles of individuals became diversified and large aggregations of people not involved in agriculture began to develop. This was given an even greater boost with the industrial revolutionand the development and utilization of electrical power.


    So what you are looking at over the past 10,000 years is not evolution of intellect. It is social and technological evolution. As was pointed out, it is the development of knowledge that has allowed the human race to achieve what it has. The expansion of knowledge over this period has been at an exponential rate.

    Blue
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 21, 2011
  7. Bluetongue1

    Bluetongue1 Guest

    Human evolution
    Humans are believed to have evolved from an ape-ancestor, somewhere out of the changing Dryopithecines during the Miocene era. Somewhere between 8 to 6 million years ago the split between modern apes and modern humans occurred. Unfortunately the fossil evidence around this period is rather scant and there are a number of possible candidates on the human lineage. What is commonly accepted is that the line gave rise to the Australopithecines (refer to Australis’ post #12– very nice!), which developed in east Africa and Southern Africa. There were two general forms, the robust and the gracile. Robust were more vegetarian (a bit like Gorillas – they had the sagittal crest mentioned by Crocdoc to attach the large jaw muscles required for eating tough vegetable matter) and gracile, which were more omnivorous and opportunistic. Human stock is thought to have arisen from the gracile form. Homo appears to havefirst developed in east Africa but then spread to Europe and Asia.

    As humans do today, human ancestors displayed a lack of specialisation or adaptations to a specific mode of existence. They were behaviourally adaptive. So learning new behaviours was part of their survival strategies. Learning requires memory, memory requires nerve patterns in the brain, the bigger the brain the more you can learn, the better the chance of survival. Couple this with erect posture and no longer walking on your hands and you have the ideal scenario for developing tool use and then tool making.

    Odd Bods & Sods
    There is no “missing link”. This was simply a phrase coined by a remarkable man named Eugène Dubois. It has since been misused to the hilt.

    There is apoor understanding of chromosomes. Much of the DNA found in human chromosomes is “junk”. It does nothing.

    Genetic variation is part and parcel of sexual reproduction – crossing over, independent assortment of chromatids and recombination. These happen all the time. That is aside from mutations – which can be environmentally induced or result from errors in transcription during replication plus...

    Whole chromosomescan be dragged to one sex cell if the spindle fibre to which they are attached fails to split at the centromere (point of attachment) – so one cell receives 24chromatids and the other receives 22 – a process known as meiotic nondisjunction (alluded to by Crocdoc).

    A scientific theory is that which provides the best explanation of the known facts. Falsification refers to part of the armoury of science in gathering those facts – along with controlled experiments and scientific method generally. Theories can be and often are refined over time as new information that is not catered for by the existing theory comes to light.

    A law is an indisputable given e.g. The law of gravity – any two masses will exert a forceof attraction on each other. Nothing can exceed the speed of light – at c massbecomes infinite.

    Neanderthals are Homo sapiens – ice age genius!

    If you have calluses on your knuckles you are reading the wrong thread. Don’t go out after dark, stay away from strange celestial lights (street lights included) and don’t answer any adds in the newspaper or on the net asking for swingers – they don't use trees.

    Blue
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 21, 2011
  8. damian83

    damian83 Very Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2010
    Messages:
    1,665
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    lismore nsw
    thats pretty much on the money
    it has been estimated that the last common ancestor of humans and chimpanzees (with whom we share 99 percent of our genes) lived five million years ago. Going back a little farther, the Hominidae clade is 13 million years old. If we continue farther back in time, we find that placental mammals are between 60 and 80 million years old and that the oldest four-limbed animal, or tetrapod, lived between 300 and 350 million years ago and the earliest chordates (animals with a notochord) appeared about 990 million years ago. Humans belong to each of these successively broader groups.
    although we are closer to dna in pigs, go figure.....
     
  9. Bluetongue1

    Bluetongue1 Guest


    A few bits that are not technically spot on but the main thrust is good. A shared common ancestor is definitely not the same thing as “evolving from”. If anything, it is evolving with, in parallel. All species are continuing to evolve. To get a handle on it, think of one million years of evolution being required to change sufficiently to warrant new species status. That is pretty much the minimum required.

    Only the pendants, like me, need bother reading the rest….

    There is a difference between sequences of genetic code(genome) and genes – we have 96% of the former in common with chimps.
    I think you are referring to the Hominoidea rather than Hominidae.
    6 – 8 to million is more commonly accepted as the branching point of hominids from chimp ancestor.
    First Primates were around 65 M and first mammals 200 M. The Wikepedia estimates for first placental mammals don’t really make sense. First chordates are more like 530 M. 990 M would put you into the pre-Cambrian (540+ M) – the late Proterozoic to be exact. I think the name speaks for itself. Around the 500 M mark is more likely for the first protochordates.
    The pig comparison does not include the entire genonme. Only those genes coding for proteins. Given the common biochemistry shared by mammals that is not surprising. Genetic comparisons have been done with pigs because they have a similar digestive system (omnivorous) to human and have been used as source of medical materials for humans – insulin and heart valves being two major ones.

    Blue
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 22, 2011
  10. Jungle_Freak

    Jungle_Freak Very Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2005
    Messages:
    1,969
    Likes Received:
    3
    Location:
    North Queensland
    We have 96% of the same genes as chimps ?
    Well what about that other 4% ?
    We must get that 4% from them darn aliens i guess. ha ha ha
    TWILIGHT ZONE theme playing in my ear ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, lol
     
  11. Mo-Cheynei

    Mo-Cheynei Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2011
    Messages:
    406
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    QUEENSLANDER
    see hybrids are cool and natural, smarter, better looking chimps!

    here's one of my faves im saving up for, to plug into my breeding projects!:D
     

    Attached Files:

  12. Jason.s

    Jason.s Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2012
    Messages:
    550
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Brisbane
    [​IMG]
    Heres proof.
     
  13. Bluetongue1

    Bluetongue1 Guest


    You do realise of course that should you fail to produce offspring initially, it will require periodic repeated matings until the female is gravid. That may involve an extensive amount of time and effort on your behalf. I can only but wonder if you are prepared to commit to that which may be required? I can only wish you well and hope that you have what it takes to see the project through to completion.


    In re-reading this thread it is rather frightening to see the mis-information put out by some, using the names of fossil hominids and hominoids but totally incorrectly ascribing their lineage. Thankfully there was a significant percentage of posters who had a good understanding of hominid evolutionary lineages and put the known evidence to the fore. Not to mention the confusion of cultural evolution with biological evolution – hopefully sorted out by the example of Australian aborigines making the transition from a stone culture to a modern culture. If posters are going to comment on something, they should make some effort to ensure they are au fait with the facts first. Otherwise they run the very real risk of spreading falsities and incorrect understandings.

    Blue
     
  14. Jason.s

    Jason.s Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2012
    Messages:
    550
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Brisbane
    I'll be a back up for the breading project if you like!!
     
  15. moussaka

    moussaka Active Member

    Joined:
    May 30, 2012
    Messages:
    256
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Canberra
    Some quick comments after reading this thread through:

    The difference in human/great ape chromosome number is most likely due to our chromosome 2 being formed from the fusion of two chromosomes currently separate in the ape lineage sometime after the human lineage split.

    The 'we're 98/99/96% genetically the same as chimpanzees' line is a little misleading - while there's only a few percent difference in our base sequences, most of the genetic difference between humans and chimpanzees derive from changes not linked to changes in the specific base sequences per se but rather gene copy number differences, regulatory changes, transposition events etc.
     
  16. thelionking

    thelionking Not so new Member

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2011
    Messages:
    18
    Likes Received:
    1
    Well yeah, but not proper natural selection. I mean, (not that I have anything against this) we keep crippled and diseased people alive and I guess that would cause more of our human population to be genetically diseased. But we have so many humans I don't think it matters :)
     
  17. Imported_tuatara

    Imported_tuatara Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2017
    Messages:
    622
    Likes Received:
    393
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Ballarat, Victoria
    Wrong! we are all primitive bone fish.
     
  18. Foozil

    Foozil Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2017
    Messages:
    711
    Likes Received:
    505
    Gender:
    Male
    Placoderms aren't toooooo primitive.
     
  19. Bluetongue1

    Bluetongue1 APS Veteran APS Veteran

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2015
    Messages:
    554
    Likes Received:
    601
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Perth
    Well done! - that explains the pharyngeal gills slits in our embryos.


    Hang on…
    One small problem. (Well two actually.) Placoderms went extinct and the last time I tried breathing under water I almost drowned. Those damned gills don’t work very well.
     
  20. SpottedPythons

    SpottedPythons Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 13, 2017
    Messages:
    431
    Likes Received:
    431
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Galston, NSW
    Curses... why are we keeping the specimens whose gills are dysfunctional? That ain't natural selection.
     
    Bluetongue1 likes this.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page