kevyn
Very Well-Known Member
Man if you guys legalize exotics, I'm so moving everything there. I'd make a friggin' killing. 
Exotics in australia
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I don't think it achieved too much to be honest, because breeding and selling was illegal no breeders came forward (why would they? ). I think you will find that it was mostly the people that had the odd snake or two, as far as the exotics go, I seem to remember the results for the native reptiles was better. It certainly wasn't Australia wide though, just NSW I think ?
No, the amnesty was Federal, organised by the DEC in Canberra. It involved all states and territories.
Pathetic figures - a total of 38 reptiles handed in, and one tarantula. NSW had 21, Victoria 15, Qld had 2 and the NT only 1.
The tarantula was in Victoria too.
Hix
Pathetic figures - a total of 38 reptiles handed in, and one tarantula. NSW had 21, Victoria 15, Qld had 2 and the NT only 1.
The tarantula was in Victoria too.
Hix
Well if that is correct the results were pathetic but predictable really. At least the authorities can say we gave everyone the opportunity to come forward.
Those figures probably represent maybe 1% of the total out there.
The amnesty I thought was being referred to was the one in NSW that enabled people to keep the animals they declared, that one turned up considerably more animals than that purely because the people knew they would still have the animals. Still only the tip of the iceberg though.
Those figures probably represent maybe 1% of the total out there.
The amnesty I thought was being referred to was the one in NSW that enabled people to keep the animals they declared, that one turned up considerably more animals than that purely because the people knew they would still have the animals. Still only the tip of the iceberg though.
basketcase
Well-Known Member
Re: RE: Exotics in australia
i dont think youre even close mate
boa said:
i dont think youre even close mate
Kenshin
Very Well-Known Member
RE: Re: RE: Exotics in australia
lol i can tell you now there are allot of exotics in perth and no1 would hand them in as calm would make theyre life extreamly difficult for a long time.... regardless of the "amnesty"
lol i can tell you now there are allot of exotics in perth and no1 would hand them in as calm would make theyre life extreamly difficult for a long time.... regardless of the "amnesty"
Re: RE: Exotics in australia
That's exactly the point. New legislation was enacted, and so the population was given the opportunity to hand in their exotics. Now, if you're caught, you don't really have a leg to stand on. And with the reverse onus of proof ........ well ....... it's not a good position to be caught in.
That was when they were introducing the licensing system - the amnesty was so people could register what they had. Exotics went on a special Exotic License. The license said that the holder could not sell or breed the exotics. But many of them went ahead and bred them anyway, then sold the offspring. And acquired more exotics.
That's the problem with bringing in a regulated importation of exotics - all males, like Instar suggested. You will only control what you have brought in. The illegal breeders will still go on doing what they are doing, and it will create a black market for females that will get smuggled in. Telling the sexes apart is difficult, and would allow the smuggler to not worry about authorities visiting their collection. 'Cause they could show them anything and get away with it.
At least now, if you have an exotic, you've broken the law - open and shut case. (Except those with the Exotic License mentioned before).
Furhtermore, in the international arena, it's been shown that when the international moratorium on ivory was relaxed slightly so that Sth Africa, Zimbabwe and Namibia could trade in confiscated tusks, the amount of illegal ivory entering the market place jumped significantly. Any kind of legal trade gives the smugglers an advantage. That's why Kenya refuses to take part, and publicly burns millions of dollars worth of confiscated tusks every so often.
And if small amount of a very STRICTLY regulated and monitored trade allows people to illegally smuggle something the size of an elephant tusk, how much easier would it be to smuggle reptiles if we had some sort of legal importation?
The USA still imports large shipments of animals as pets each year, and there is an enormous amount of illegal trade involved in it. The same goes for Hong Kong and Singapore. It's thought that the illegal trade in wildlife worldwide, in terms of revenue generated for the smugglers, is only behind the illegal trade in drugs and weapons. Some sources beleive it is bigger than the arms trade, and many drug dealers may be diversifying and dealing in wildlife too.
In case you hadn't guessed, I'm against the idea of importation.
Hix
boa said:
That's exactly the point. New legislation was enacted, and so the population was given the opportunity to hand in their exotics. Now, if you're caught, you don't really have a leg to stand on. And with the reverse onus of proof ........ well ....... it's not a good position to be caught in.
That was when they were introducing the licensing system - the amnesty was so people could register what they had. Exotics went on a special Exotic License. The license said that the holder could not sell or breed the exotics. But many of them went ahead and bred them anyway, then sold the offspring. And acquired more exotics.
That's the problem with bringing in a regulated importation of exotics - all males, like Instar suggested. You will only control what you have brought in. The illegal breeders will still go on doing what they are doing, and it will create a black market for females that will get smuggled in. Telling the sexes apart is difficult, and would allow the smuggler to not worry about authorities visiting their collection. 'Cause they could show them anything and get away with it.
At least now, if you have an exotic, you've broken the law - open and shut case. (Except those with the Exotic License mentioned before).
Furhtermore, in the international arena, it's been shown that when the international moratorium on ivory was relaxed slightly so that Sth Africa, Zimbabwe and Namibia could trade in confiscated tusks, the amount of illegal ivory entering the market place jumped significantly. Any kind of legal trade gives the smugglers an advantage. That's why Kenya refuses to take part, and publicly burns millions of dollars worth of confiscated tusks every so often.
And if small amount of a very STRICTLY regulated and monitored trade allows people to illegally smuggle something the size of an elephant tusk, how much easier would it be to smuggle reptiles if we had some sort of legal importation?
The USA still imports large shipments of animals as pets each year, and there is an enormous amount of illegal trade involved in it. The same goes for Hong Kong and Singapore. It's thought that the illegal trade in wildlife worldwide, in terms of revenue generated for the smugglers, is only behind the illegal trade in drugs and weapons. Some sources beleive it is bigger than the arms trade, and many drug dealers may be diversifying and dealing in wildlife too.
In case you hadn't guessed, I'm against the idea of importation.
Hix
RE: Re: RE: Exotics in australia
I am also against importation, I can't see the need for it when good healthy animals can be obtained from zoos and parks.
I do know of a couple of people caught with exotics and the slap on the wrist they recieved was hardly a deterent, so the reverse onus of proof you mentioned (proving where you got the animal and didn't smuggle it in) really seems to amount to no deterent at all. I just think we need some sort of system that works as opposed to what we have now that dosen't.
I am also against importation, I can't see the need for it when good healthy animals can be obtained from zoos and parks.
I do know of a couple of people caught with exotics and the slap on the wrist they recieved was hardly a deterent, so the reverse onus of proof you mentioned (proving where you got the animal and didn't smuggle it in) really seems to amount to no deterent at all. I just think we need some sort of system that works as opposed to what we have now that dosen't.
Re: RE: Re: RE: Exotics in australia
Agreed, it's pointless having heavy fines and jail time as penalties when the judges sentence lightly. We discussed that last year - some guy picked up in Victoria with almost 90 exotic snakes, broke about 10 federal laws and six state laws, was fined only $5,000. We need one judge to impose a heavy fine and/or a few years in jail, and then people will stop and take notice (hopefully other judges).
No they can't. The exotic animals in the zoos and parks are under permanent quarantine surveillance. They cannot be let out of the zoo or park, unless being moved to another zoo or park, or with special consent for things like media promotions etc.
If the zoos and parks were permitted to sell to the public, it would solve any of the current problems. All it will do is allow a very small percentage of people to legally own an exotic. It won't solve the problem of all the illegally-held exotics, and it will allow a small avenue for illegal trading.
Hix
boa said:
Agreed, it's pointless having heavy fines and jail time as penalties when the judges sentence lightly. We discussed that last year - some guy picked up in Victoria with almost 90 exotic snakes, broke about 10 federal laws and six state laws, was fined only $5,000. We need one judge to impose a heavy fine and/or a few years in jail, and then people will stop and take notice (hopefully other judges).
boa said:
No they can't. The exotic animals in the zoos and parks are under permanent quarantine surveillance. They cannot be let out of the zoo or park, unless being moved to another zoo or park, or with special consent for things like media promotions etc.
If the zoos and parks were permitted to sell to the public, it would solve any of the current problems. All it will do is allow a very small percentage of people to legally own an exotic. It won't solve the problem of all the illegally-held exotics, and it will allow a small avenue for illegal trading.
Hix
RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Exotics in australia
But why should someone doing something as trivial as owning some exotics be sent to jail when you can walk away from court a free man/women after killing someone whilst driving a car or beating someone sensless after a night on the town ? As long as real criminals aren't punished by our system I can't agree with harsh penalties for keeping illegal reptiles and thankfully our judges seem to agree.
But why should someone doing something as trivial as owning some exotics be sent to jail when you can walk away from court a free man/women after killing someone whilst driving a car or beating someone sensless after a night on the town ? As long as real criminals aren't punished by our system I can't agree with harsh penalties for keeping illegal reptiles and thankfully our judges seem to agree.
Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Exotics in australia
Because in those instances, the dickheads claim "diminished responsibilty" because they were drunk/high/tired/angry/menopausal etc. That's how they get off. And beating someone sneseless or hitting them with your car is a quick event, not usually thought out.
Owning an illegal animal is a long term event, not spontaneous. Smuggling is a crime by intent. Supporting smuggling (by purchasing smuggled animals, whether you know they are smuggled or not) is criminal by association (similar to the crime of receiving stolen goods) and helps to perpetuate the illegal importations.
Please note: I am not justifying people getting off scott-free when others have died, I'm just saying that the situations are different. And just because someone who commits murder or manslaughter gets off, doesn't mean that anyone who commits a lesser crime should be let off too.
JMO.
Hix
boa said:
Because in those instances, the dickheads claim "diminished responsibilty" because they were drunk/high/tired/angry/menopausal etc. That's how they get off. And beating someone sneseless or hitting them with your car is a quick event, not usually thought out.
Owning an illegal animal is a long term event, not spontaneous. Smuggling is a crime by intent. Supporting smuggling (by purchasing smuggled animals, whether you know they are smuggled or not) is criminal by association (similar to the crime of receiving stolen goods) and helps to perpetuate the illegal importations.
Please note: I am not justifying people getting off scott-free when others have died, I'm just saying that the situations are different. And just because someone who commits murder or manslaughter gets off, doesn't mean that anyone who commits a lesser crime should be let off too.
JMO.
Hix
The Rock
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RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Exotics in australia
Aw, Come on, just let me have some emerald trees. Please can I,go on I promse I wont let any go up the cape. Can I please huh. Naw just kidding, against exotics. But cant wait for the gov to let us export overseas, as our animals are already there and comanding some of the top prices.Once a royalty was impossed the gov and ourselves would reap the benifits instead of overseas breeders. It would have to be stickly regulated thou.
Rob
Aw, Come on, just let me have some emerald trees. Please can I,go on I promse I wont let any go up the cape. Can I please huh. Naw just kidding, against exotics. But cant wait for the gov to let us export overseas, as our animals are already there and comanding some of the top prices.Once a royalty was impossed the gov and ourselves would reap the benifits instead of overseas breeders. It would have to be stickly regulated thou.
Rob
RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Exotics in australia
Boa,
Even your revised estimate of .275% would not even be close with just Corn Snakes alone. At a guess, I would say there would be somewhere between 20,000 to 100,000 Corn Snakes alone just in NSW.
A few friends of mine added up exotic species they had personally witnessed in collections around NSW and from memory it was something like 170 different species.
Boa,
Even your revised estimate of .275% would not even be close with just Corn Snakes alone. At a guess, I would say there would be somewhere between 20,000 to 100,000 Corn Snakes alone just in NSW.
A few friends of mine added up exotic species they had personally witnessed in collections around NSW and from memory it was something like 170 different species.
Nephrurus
Very Well-Known Member
RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Exotics in australia
170 species? argh! I might be able to track down some Dracos after all! hee hee hee
-H
170 species? argh! I might be able to track down some Dracos after all! hee hee hee
-H
Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Exotics in australia
I'm not sure what species would be exported. Most are already overseas including womas, blackheads etc. I suppose some of the less common dragons, geckoes etc but why would overseas buyers bother getting stuff from here at vast expense ? Maybe for some fresh blood but no-one seriously thinks that there isn't new blood going overseas all the time anyway.
I'm not sure what species would be exported. Most are already overseas including womas, blackheads etc. I suppose some of the less common dragons, geckoes etc but why would overseas buyers bother getting stuff from here at vast expense ? Maybe for some fresh blood but no-one seriously thinks that there isn't new blood going overseas all the time anyway.
The Rock said:
PilbaraPythons
Very Well-Known Member
RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Exotics in australia
Has any body seen any NZ greens gecko's out there in illegal land ?
Has any body seen any NZ greens gecko's out there in illegal land ?
PilbaraPythons
Very Well-Known Member
RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Exotics in australia
That is one creature I probably would risk jail for. Oh no what am I thinking. STOP TEMPTING ME
That is one creature I probably would risk jail for. Oh no what am I thinking. STOP TEMPTING ME
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