Exotics in australia

[Guest]

Ha Ha Ha those bird keepers are pushovers hey jeff :lol: No wonder i cant keep up with the exotic birds in australia theres just such a big selection available.This is corn snake from kingsnake and as jeff verifys with escapee stats there is alott of them here in different parts of ozz in collections.They would be pest if they became established in the wild but they are here anyway and we need some regulation possibly so we know whats out there.

 

[Hickson]

If the eco saviours want to clean up Australia, start with cats, dogs, most birds, fish, cattle, sheep etc etc etc, get the point! There isnt much to conserve left!

Maybe not out your way, Instar, but there are plenty of environments and habitats that have not been badly effected, or are repairable. To say "There isn't much to conserve left!" is just plain ignorant, and I know you aren't ignorant, mate.

Just because we already have problems caused by other introduced exotics does not justify adding to the problems with reptiles. In fact, we should be proud (and promoting) the fact that we don't keep exotics, and our hobby is not a threat to native wildlife or environments.

And Jeff, stop beating about the bush - tell 'em how you really feel!
:lol:


Hix

 

[instar]

Thing that tickles me most really is than human development destroys more of the natural world than anything else. whole ecosystems are 'bought' and dissappear under suburbs and roads and resorts everyday, you cant ban the spread of greedy humanity, the problem is immense, absolutly immeasurable.
So you cant deal with the real problem, cause and effect, so just target a few softspots that will make sense to those who dont bother lookin at the big picture and it will look as if your doing something and keep the votes comin in.
Meanwhile the wheels of multi $$ bil industry keep churning on their unceasing journey towards a concrete globe.
Bulldoze, mine, logout an entire forest the size of vic and create human habitat, your awarded a nobel for humanitarianism, want to import a chamelian your a selfish, egotistical, ecoterrorist B*****D!
Go figure!

Please read what I wrote in context. I didn't say the "herp community" I was clearly referring to individuals.

sure Jeff?

Why can't some of you guys and gals simply accept that you have a huge selection of native reptiles to satisfy your selfish needs. Too many people couldn't give a ...... (insect catcher) or a rats .... about the animals or conserving nature or natural ecosystems - you just have to have something different to satisfy your own ego

Sounds like the herp community to me mate. :wink:

Talk about reptile security and "they won't escape". What naive nonsence. Why should it be expected that exotics won't escape when there are literally hundreds of escaped natives picked up in suburbia throughout Australia every year

Couldnt that said about zoo's too? escape or theft and you have the same 'risks' no?

To say "There isn't much to conserve left!" is just plain ignorant, and I know you aren't ignorant, mate.

Aw shucks! yeah ok that was blanket statement that dint do me justice, but you know what I meant. sure theres a few national parks, but for how long, eventually even they will be gone under concrete, or shrunken to tiny allotments sadly. I never said go out and plant a gravid exotic where ever ya go, just that stopping the little man keeping an exotic at home is a bandaid at best. :wink:

 

[PilbaraPythons]

For a slight twist on this discussion it is my understanding that in Queensland it is technically prohibited to import any reptile in to that state that is not naturally found there. This is a breach of import laws that are supposed to be controllked by the Department of Primary industries. It seem lucky for us I guess that the DEH are ether unaware of this or don't really care.

 

[Guest]

So QNPWS have changed name too,vic is worst for name changes and uncle jeffreys department changed into agriculture,well they reckon diversity is the spice of life. Good to see the greening of jeff and his merry band of letter lickers but theres a drought Pilbara is that why there was trouble getting the gtps into Qld? Like cause they had png as well as ozz background.

 

[PilbaraPythons]

The first gtp that came from urs to Rock was imported to an exotic licence which Rock holds. However all the others to my knowledge were imported on standard licences. You will probably find that the DPI have no knowledge of what, when, where, and to who was imported. Rock only became aware of the DPI rules by contacting them about the import of that first GTP. I first struck trouble with the DPI when I wanted to collect what I then believed to be a new species of elapid in the gulf country. I was told by the DEH that they could not process the application until I had the relevant clearance from the DPI first. This is no easy feat as it has to be proven to a committee in Brisbane that it is ethically sound.The committee is made up of members from all sorts of groups and only meet rarely. Considering I was only wanting to send this specimen to the Queensland mueseum they can bend over and jam it up their exhaust as I my time is more important.

 

[Menagerie]

geez boys, it would be lovely if you could have a sensible adult discussion without resorting to some of the juvenile comments which have been made.

 

[PilbaraPythons]

NAH :lol:

 

[beknluke]

I haven't personally SEEN a whole heap of collections incl exotics - but I was offered some Veiled Chameleons and a few other sorts, along with an iguana if I was interested.
In fact, the guy even offered if we wanted to come across and 'play' with some to see if we liked them!!
He had over 600 Chameleon eggs.
I don't think that HE is going to be stopping any time soon...

 

[Guest]

:evil: managerie i take exception to th infantile comments stuff, and jeffrey heres a reall ranger that drove an exotic horse hard,wheres that masked man gone? :?

 

[Guest]

Read your post pilbara.mate i didnt realize it was so complicated it deters a lot of people from being honest when its made artificially hard to do the right thing.

 

[PilbaraPythons]

If you saw the DPI application you would absolutely be astounded. It is more applicable to live stock, cattle, chooks etc . They fully admit that it doesn't suit native wild life and it seems to me that it should be totally handled by the DEH.

 

[Retic]

I wonder how much paperwork there is when a farmer wants to cut 100 trees down ? Or should I say when 100 trees fall down in a storm one night.
Money, development and 'progress' are all that matter nowadays, if anyone thinks otherwise they are kidding themselves.

 

[Hickson]

Re: RE: Exotics in australia

Talk about reptile security and "they won't escape". What naive nonsence. Why should it be expected that exotics won't escape when there are literally hundreds of escaped natives picked up in suburbia throughout Australia every year

Couldnt that said about zoo's too? escape or theft and you have the same 'risks' no?

Inny,

Firstly, Zoos that hold exotics are, for the most, under Federal jurisdiction and have nothing to do with Jeff or the State authorities. And there are a hell of a lot more regulations, licences and permits they have to have/comply with than any private individual. As a result, Zoo enclosures tend to be better built and more secure than what you have at home.

Secondly, most of these places have 24 hour security guards, not working for a security company, but employed by the facility themselves.

So to answer your question - do zoos pose the same risks? Yes, the same risks, but the risks are minimal compared to your average home.



Hix

 

[junglemad]

RE: Re: RE: Exotics in australia

I wouldn't be surprised if there are more corn snakes and red-eared sliders in the western suburbs of sydney than morelia or chelodina.

 

[instar]

RE: Re: RE: Exotics in australia

LOl fair call Hix, I was waitin for our inhouse zoo coniseur to pop up on that one!
Gonna have to tell the boys, to unpack the black balaclavas, bank would be easier! :lol:

 

[Guest]

Hix of course zoos and various wildlife parks that hold exotics have good relatively escape proof cages etc etc. Plenty go missing through various means,and not rarely either,thats how most of the illegal exotics in circulation and some of the legal ones came about.You could write a book on the subject Raymond Hoser wrote two.

 

[peterescue]

I have been told this on numerous occasions.
"A lot of the exotics in Sydney came from the zoo. They were imported legally(some loophole) through the zoo and then sold on."
Perhaps some of the oldtimers could illuminate us further as I didnt live in Sydney in those days.

 

[Guest]

Paperwork would be one way peter,like a boa has young and some get written down and some dont :wink: :wink: Well ime sure you have heard the abysmal gtp goings on etc Never realised there was a big problem until i moved to sydney and started to get offered all these corns,kings and boa constrictors never did get offered sliders.

 

[bwana]

Peter,
One classic way it was done is this; If "they' wanted a different species or colour morph of corn or whatever they used to have it mailed over by a contact who uses a false name and false return address.
Then they would 'tip off" the authorities. As the zoo recieves any illegal imports the keepers end up with it anyway and gain some "brownie points" as well!
When the wanted species have bred the keepers only declare 5 eggs or 10 young to their bosses and take the rest of the eggs or neonates home.
Eggs or progeny which were already held though legal importation were also treated the same
When the amnesty was on in NSW ppl some people declare whole collections in false names and as soon as they aquired the reptiles which they had declared, simply transfered the animals to their own licence or sold them.