exotics or not

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well they are all ready here illegaly, thats a totally seperate issue. That problem exists already. nothing we can do about it, why should it impact on keeping exotics in the future. Its always going to be the illegal unlicenced people that cause the damage most of the time. its the same as the gun issue. Why take guns off licenced people when its the unlicenced people that are proven to commit most crime with the guns.

craig
 
Couldnt have put it better Fuscus ! NO GUNS, ANYWHERE, EVER !!!!! (could never understand why police didnt kill martin bryant immediatly, no hesitation, no questions asked! Hes damn lucky it wasnt in vic) I certainly would have shot him dead straight away, no hesitation at all.
Im sure a few folk would have liked them to have let him burn.

There is no need for guns outside olympic type competition. imho
 
There are exotics held by private keepers legally in Victoria already. There was an amnesty bout 8 or so years ago where people were given a separate license to keep what they declared in amnesty. They arent allowed to breed or sell the exotics but they didnt have to have them desexed. So it is really a question of how honest these people are. They had to submit a written statement on why their exotics wouldnt escape and what they would do if they did and also how secure the enclosures were. Makes you wonder if down the track they might be legalised??
Stevo
 
thats how the lady in that story got her permit. she kept a green iguana, 2corns and 3 leopard geckos. she ruined her chance to keep exotics by selling them illegally
 
yeah well, there were 2 allied soldiers in ww2 that got carried out wounded in the same battle, both thought the other was dead as they were good mates! 60yrs later they moved into retirement homes and become neighbours!
 
They are definately here Mick legally and illegally. You would be surprised at how many there is. Obviously no one is going to post photos on a public forum if they illegally keep them.
 
Nope Mick, they're definately here. Many keepers here have talked to exotic keepers directly, if not actually seen them, and I'm sure there are exotic keepers who are members here as well (though clever enough to keep their mouths shut about that ;)) Exotics are seized by the government on a semi-regular basis, there have been a few newspaper stories on the outcome of those posted on here. Exotics have been declared during various amnesties, and some are legally held as a result of those... etc etc :)
 
craig23 said:
One thing i notice is that everyone expects that if exotics were introduced legally into australia they would have a impact on our environment. Well I would suggest if they ever were to be introduced legally (IF) it would be a extremely controlled and a heavily licenced hobby. Infact there are endless amounts of control the government could place on people that were interested in keeping exotics which could pretty much ensure animals dont find there way into the wild and cause problems.

For example (just one that comes to mind in 2 seconds) is that for your average joe blow hobbiest, only de sexed animals could be kept. that way if one excaped it is going to have little impact on the wild as it most likely wont survive in its new environment for long (in most cases) and secondly it cant breed.
As for the breeding, only licenced people with facilities that are strictly monitored and secure could breed animals. all fertile stock must be fitted with Digital ID etc etc etc. There are plenty of ways exotics could be kept as pets in australia without ANY impact on our environment.. sure it would all come at a massive cost. But its possible.
Everyone goes on about our environment.. it shouldnt even be an issue because proper management would ensure that none get into the environment. or is that to much effort??????

Man people are willing to pay $5000 for a green tree python or $2000 for a woma. if we are talking about this much money we could all have a rectic thats de sexed, has digital ID, and a radio tracker implanted as well.... what are the chances of it causing an environmental issue?

MOST animals that have caused significant environmental problems in OZ have been released on purpose to establish wild populations eg, cane toad, fox, rabbit, european carp, and more. Animals like cats never had a licencing system and it was inevitable. In a strictly regulated licencing environment and with the cost of the animals, there is little chance in my opinion it would be a problem. You can not compare keeping exotic reptiles to almost any of australias ferral animal issues, they are TOTALLY different.

Funny thing is im not even saying im interested in keeping exotics, this is just so obvious but no one seems to notice.

craig

So well said mate, I had to quote the whole post! :wink: Spot on, to my way of thinking.
 
craig23 said:
There are plenty of ways exotics could be kept as pets in australia without ANY impact on our environment.. sure it would all come at a massive cost. But its possible.

Sure it acan be done at a massive cost. Australia-wide we'd be talking in the tens of millions of dollars just to set up the infra-structure in each state, the quarantine and import facilities, testing, monitoring and enforcement, and the rest of it. That's not even considering salaries for the people working in the industry. The ongoing costs each year would be massive as well.

Yes, it could possibly be done the way you suggest.

But it won't be. The government would never outlay all that money while our schools are overcrowded, our universities underfunded, our hospitals full, our roads in bad condition etc. We know how a certain councillor on the Gold Coast feels about people keeping snakes as pets, how do you think the general public would feel about the Govt. funding a project to the tune of millions of dollars for a minority group (and that's what we are) so that they can keep even more snakes?

No government would do that, because it would not fly well with the general voters, and the money could be better spent on more important things.


craig23 said:
You can not compare keeping exotic reptiles to almost any of australias ferral animal issues, they are TOTALLY different.

If captive exotic reptiles escape and set up feral populations, then yes, the cause of the feral populations is different. But the end result is the same - so it is not "TOTALLY different".

:)
Hix
 
Can snakes be desexed safely and painlessly?
Who would pay $2000 for a reptile that they can never breed from?
Who would pay $500 for a reptile they can never breed from?
Who gets the licence to breed them?
 
I have to answer Craig's post even though I am sick of the subject and the people who said 'yey' before will say 'yey' again while the people who said 'nay' will again say 'nay'. Fortunately, from my perspective, there are many more stake holders in this issue than just reptile keepers so exotics are unlikely to ever become legal.

First of all, there seems to be a misconception that allowing exotics will prevent smuggling , I think this is very unlikely for reasons explained below.

Secondly the statement "Allow exotics in?" implies all exotics (though some have stated otherwise), the most probable case in this unlikely scenario is that only some species will be allowed in. In this case the whining 'Why can't we keep exotics?' will be replaced with the whining 'Why can't we keep other exotics?'. In other words this argument will continue, only the boundaries will have changed!

Craig also states

As for the breeding, only licenced people with facilities that are strictly monitored and secure could breed animals

This implies at the very least 100% escape prove cages with no possibility of departure during cleaning, feeding and maintaince. If you have any photos of one please post it, I would be interested in seeing one. Currently, the best practice that I know is secure cages inside a secure room in secure premises. And the place would have to be well maintained, if the breeder couldn't quite make ends meet then that hole in the wall wouldn't get repaired quite quick enough. Of course the place would also have to be catastrophe proof as well, we cant have the snakes escaping during a flood, earthquake or cyclone, that would defeat the whole purpose.

Then of course there is malicious behavior, we have just had an example on APS. Imagine instead of doing that, they got an axe and hacked through the back of the breeding room. And it doesn't have to be people you know, all you need is a few blokes out on Friday night, young, dumb and full of rum, getting in and trashing the joint.

Then there is the assumption that the animals will always be on the premises, the worst case scenario I can think of is a car accident on the way to the vet to get this year's hatchinglings sterilized with all of the year's crop escaping!

And do I need to talk about thievery in all its forms? Nah.

And the strictly monitored bit. How strict, monthly visits? Weekly? Daily? Closed circuit monitoring? Remember we also have to regard the keeper as a potential risk as well. I sure that 99.99% would do the right thing but it only takes one, there is the story circulating that the keeper with registered exotics breeding them. There would be a huge incentive for the breeder to sneak a few out the back door, how hard would it be to hide a few eggs) every registered sale would attract vet fees, government charges and, of course, the dreaded GST, while a few sold down at the pub wouldn't.

And the end rub ? even getting close to this would cost money, lots of money, and it wouldn?t come from the government, so people would then have a choice, pay $1200 for a registered, sterilized animal or $200 for one down at the wharf (and you could go to www.dodgiecertifications.com to download a piece of paper that says its legal). So we then end up with an illegal population that is even harder to detect.:shock:


Anyhow, I?m getting of my soapbox, I'm starting to wear it out. 8)
 
Fuscus u r a tease lol . I just tried ur link dodgy certificates and didnt work I was gonna get a dodgy certificate for a png green
 
The government would never outlay all that money while our schools are overcrowded, our universities underfunded, our hospitals full, our roads in bad condition etc.

LMBAO !!!!!! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: Of course not freind, They're as honest as the day is long :shock: :lol:

I have to answer Craig's post even though I am sick of the subject and the people who said 'yey' before will say 'yey' again while the people who said 'nay' will again say 'nay'[/quote}

wasn_t_me.thumb.gif
Bells are ringing somewhere :lol:



_________________
 
By your logic Fuscus we shouldnt keep anything dangerous because someone could do something irrational(malicious).
Peter
 
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