Exotics

[Mayo]

OPMV and IBD were both bought into the country, dog's cat's and fish were bought into the country before they knew what sort of damage they would do. Reptiles like cane toads have been bought into the country and look what they have done. Like all things laws have had to adapt. there is no need to legalise forign reptiles in Aust it will just cause more probems in the long run.

 

[Vincent]

I agree. In a perfect world they wouldnt be here. But the fact is they are very popular and there are heaps here. It's no good hiding your head in the sand and pretending they dont exist. I believe it's better to legalise them and bring it all out into the open. That way the NPWS can keep some control of it, plus make some money out of it as well.

 

[Splitmore]

OPMV and IBD were both bought into the country, .

Mayo,
there's absolutely no proof of that, one theroy is it may of originated here and thats how it's ended up overseas.
Keeping exotics under the table has been going on forever, and will continue to do so. It's obviously a problem, especially if things escape etc but with all thats happening in the world if the only problem is someone keeping and breeding a few corn snakes then life must be pretty good

 

[cris]

I dont keep exotics nor do i wish to, but your kidding yourself if you think there's anyway it can be stopped.I dont know why the NPWS dont have an amnesty and get it all out into the open and make some money out of it themselves with lisences etc. Because no matter what fines you impose, people are always going to keep,breed and sell exotics.

Yes i agree, i think all reptile keepers should untite and try to push for the legalisation of exotics its the only realistic way to fix the problem IMO. Unless someone has another idea that will work and is possible?
Although it isnt going to happen i think severe punishments would really limit the number of ppl wanting them i cant imagine too many ppl would want a corn snake if it could land them in jail for 20 years but with the current system of limited to no punishment why wouldnt you keep them if you really want to. I personally think this would be a better option as far as protecting our ecosystem but im dreaming to think it could happen.

A shocking truth but I hope it doesn't come down to that.

Well its already happening we have feral populations of sliders near brisbane and possibly in other places and who knows if some of the diseases we are seeing are from overseas.

I know asian house geckos were accidentally released here but they do show how well some species can just explode in numbers very quickly with no way of stopping them. Oh well at least they make good food for animals.

 

[Squamata]

I live in WA, and being in the herp industry, it is amazing what we have been offered - Chameleons, Iguana, Corn snakes and even a boa, of course we had to knock them back and told the people to hand them in. I love the exotics but get really p*****d off with people who have brought them into our country, without a thought to our native species. Being in the industry over here CALM makes it very difficult for you to deal, farm, keep our natives and will penalise you if you have anything not on their LIST even if it is a native species.
Exotics belong in Zoos. Not in our selfish, want, want world!!! Think of our natives, if we want them to survive we have to be dinkum and only keep our natives.

 

[Mayo]

Would rather see them cop a $5000 fines and a criminal record. I'm not sticking my head in the sand there are a lot of international species available around Aust, but that doesn't mean that we should give in and let people keep them. As has been mentioned, snake catchers have had callout's to catch international species already. If it is made legal that number would increase rapidly. Wild populations have it tough enough already with out having to compete with more international snake breeds.

 

[Retic]

I agree Moosenoose, for some reason reptiles have been singled out for special treatment and demonised. I will say it again, we are allowed to have a dozen cats, breed them without restriction and give them away free to good homes but someone mentions a corn snake and you would think they had just opened a bottle of anthrax. It really does make me laugh.
I do agree also with Mayo in a way, there is no point in legalising them, there are so many here illegally and are breed in such numbers legalising them wont make any real difference.
Also I am not aware of any evidence to show IBD or OPMV were introduced, there are many who think it has always been here in one form or another but that is a different thread altogether.

 

[Mayo]

I think OPMV was first found in a californian zoo, and the second in an english zoo. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Yes I no that people have been breeding exotics for years but it doesn't make it right.

 

[cris]

with all thats happening in the world if the only problem is someone keeping and breeding a few corn snakes then life must be pretty good

Well life is pretty good in Australia and at the moment we do have time to have some concern for our ecosystem. Just because there are much bigger problems in the world such as global warming and global jihad doesnt mean that it isnt a very important issue. Also i think its something that we can do something about if we work together.

Is anyone against the legalisation of exotics? keeping in mind that unrealistic solotions wont happen.

 

[adbacus]

I don't find exotics disgusting. It's keeping them in private collections illegally despite Australian laws. Yes, there can possibly be a place for them in the future as they way things are going now isn't too good with their illegal trade. It's when you hear stories of 'my corn snake got away', and 'slider turtles taking over SE Qld waterways' that really gets people.

The sale and trade of these illegal animals are and have been going to a lot of inexperienced herpers. Ones that have little to no understanding of the basic husbandry and care of reptiles. So what happens; little Johnny can't look after his corn snake, who dumps it in the bush, or puts his slider turtle in the nearby creek. These exotics released are already in a fragile ecosystem. Natives are already having a hard time dealing with us, now they have to compete with exotic animals, with a possibility of disease.

Look at what's happened with Carp introduced into our rivers; rabbits, foxes, wild dogs and feral cats taking advantage. Cane toads heading for WA taking advantage of our roads to head to WA. Mynah Birds in our cities. JMO though

 

[Mayo]

Well said adbacus

 

[junglepython2]

Nothing is going to happen with the current penalties that are enforced, people have numerous complaints against them and nothing is done about it.

Authorities need to catch 20+ breeders and fine them the maximum amount, which I'm sure they could find in a day if they bothered looking. Get the media involved then have an amnesty. After that period start fining and confiscating collections of anyone found with exotics and actively hunt them out.

Nothing will totally eradicate exotics, but hopefully it will stop the 15 year old kid from buying one that will get bored and release it in a years time.

 

[henric]

Hi Guys,
It´s an interesting discussion you have regarding the exotics and I can understand both sides in this matter. My opinion is that you should be able to keep exotics, and I hope you will be able to some day.

However, I would like to ask a totally different thing(but similar in some aspects). Whats your thoughts about not beeing able to export animals legally?! I mean, what can be the reason for not letting you guys export to, for example, Europe where I live?!

I know that we can get a lot of your ozzie reptiles over here(mostly pythons), but for me, that is interested in knowing more about the animals, for example locality, its hard. You cant really get that kind of info on the animals over here. Also, I am very interested in your elapids, and you dont really find many of them over here.
I would love to have the opportunity to get animals directly from a breeder in your end, and I cant understand why it´s not possible.

Let me know, what you all think, and sorry for "stealing" the thread!

Regards
Henric

 

[adbacus]

I definitely agree that this should happen. Awareness needs to be raised in a large scale. What's the bet that a good percentage of these exotic keepers don't even know the legalities of what they are keeping.

 

[fullysicklids]

For example say the average corn snake sells for 250 , how likely is it that someone would just let go something into our bush that they payed good money for???and even if they did i dont need to remind ppl but you need two to breed.

Someone mentioned the whole Cane toad thing , toads were purpously introduced , so its really a different ball game.


Boa i agree with you 100%

 

[Mayo]

O.K I take back the Toads and replace it with Slide Turtles then. Sold as pet's not cheap released by kids all it took was a few to find each other and now we have a problem.

 

[Jungletrans]

Laws and fines do nothing but drive prices up on anything illegal . Look at handguns and drugs . You will always be able to buy anything worth a lot of money . Only if things are legaly available cheaply will criminals lose interest in selling them .

 

[adbacus]

For example say the average corn snake sells for 250 , how likely is it that someone would just let go something into our bush that they payed good money for???and even if they did i dont need to remind ppl but you need two to breed.

Yeah but if more than one person released that animal in a locality - i.e. slider turtles, indian mynahs - look at what you get.

Paid good money - is that also the reason why so many dogs and cats are at the RSPCA after christmas?

CSIRO in the 1950s was totally against the introduction of the cane toad I might add.

 

[Mayo]

Force the price up far enough and people will not release exotics into the wild but it is my understanding that most can be picked up quite cheaply.

 

[Hickson]

Just gonna make a couple of salient points here:

1) NPWS can't hold an amnesty. It is Federal Law that prohibits exotics, so it is DEH (formerly Environment Australia) in Canberra that can make changes, and they aren't gonna do that.

2) It might be 'safe' at present for people to keep exotics, and the fines for those caught might be small - but as soon as someone dies from a Cobra or Puff Adder bite that situation will turn around overnight.

3) Legalising exotics will only make the problem worse, as people will want what they can't have and so more exotics will be smuggled in, with the attendant risk of disease.

And in case anyone doesn't know ......... I'm against them. Lovely creatures, but only in zoos.



Hix