Discussion in 'Reptile News' started by Ramsayi, Mar 4, 2017.
Are many of the morphs originally smuggled animals?
Lets just say that people have been breeding reptiles for years and years yet very few morphs showed up.
yeah it's amazing how all of sudden there are all these amazing morphs
Not this little black duck, Jamie. Give me our reptiles in their native beauty any day.
fawn over overrated overpriced morphs ??? nah .... fraid not..... I like my nice standard common skinks and beardies , plenty interesting and beautiful enough naturally .... maybe t's a python collector thing maybe ...?
or maybe a python snobbery thing where some people want these "special" morphs as a "status symbol of some kind".
Weigel and co were only in this to make money and lots of it as fast as possible by what ever means..... IMO they added nothing of any benefit to the hobby.
I generally try not to take the bait but...
What fact based evidence do you have to support this claim as that is a very bold statement to make on APS considering John Weigels contributions to the hobby...
Wow. Just wow.
His work with Morelia carinata, and a little book he wrote by the name of Care of Australian Reptiles in Captivity. This doesn't even begin to scratch the surface.
Of course, you're entitled to your opinion, so here's mine: JW's next crap is likely to be more beneficial (and factual) to the hobby than what you just wrote!
I might be a bit naive but I don't think too many of the morphs in Australia have actually come from overseas other than the jag's.
I think there is more activity with illegal export from Australia as there is still high demand for many Australian species overseas with many still commanding prices far higher than they are worth over here. (I remember being quoted 5,000 UKP for a Diamond hatchie many years ago). Just look at the prices BHP's fetch in the US compared to Oz, not much point risking a jail term to import a snake you will lose money on.
I see a few diseases that I believe have been brought in though and obviously exotic's are still hitting the market. These are readily available & cheap overseas but might fetch a good price on the black market over here (though I can't understand why anyone would spend their hard earned on something they know is illegal when there are terrific Australian animals widely available).
Problem is we can discuss the origins of the Oz morphs as much as we want, the facts are that we will never truly know.
It's not just python morphs that come from overseas. As I understand it, some bearded dragon morphs "suddenly" appeared in Australia.
So on top of the over the top statement about John Weigel above, perhaps the one about python snobbery can be disregarded as nonsense too.
Oops, don't know what happened there...
That's a very ungenerous and ignorant statement, but then, these broad ranging and smug insults seem to be a characteristic of yours. Have you ever spent time with John Weigel? Do you know anything of the other colleagues he was involved with when Snake Ranch was conceived and developed? Do you know the time, effort and financial costs involved in getting the first 5 Rough-scaled Pythons into captivity so that they became a $200 snake within 10 or 12 years? I suppose you'll say the same about Gavin Bedford and his quest to bring Oenpellis into the culture.
I have had the good fortune to spend quite some time with John Weigel over the years, and know him to be modest, generous and very knowledgeable. You need to get out more.
As far as morph imports go, my observations have been that usually within 2-3 years of a distinct morph being bred overseas, they "turn up" spontaneously in this country - just enough time for the original animal/s to mature and produce their own clutches to prove the morph as heritable. I confess it's just my observation because I'm not interested in them at all - never owned one, never want to.
Gee, the King of knobs has spoken again.
How insulting! There are only a few people in this country who have done more than John for herpetoculture, public education and the hobby.
If theres one thing ive noticed in my time on aps its that old knob loves commenting on things he has sfa knowledge of.
Truly, given some of the types involved in this hobby, and the cynicism one can develop after long-term exposure to them, John would have to be one of the best humoured and nicest people I've ever met through my interest in reptiles. The decades of effort he has put into supporting the hobby would be hard to match anywhere. Knob's comment says far more about him than it does JW.
I see that this forum has not changed one bit. There is still the mis-informed that make bold ridiculous statements, which should be thought through before being posted. Then there is the vultures that come out to pick them pieces. I don't agree with knobbys statements but I don’t think text bashing him is the way to deal with it. I am of the opinion that he may have assumed that John Wiegel was only involved in Snake Ranch and has no knowledge of his other endeavours. These types of replies to his statement are why this forum died a very sad death. Now that it is slowly being revived, people need to be mindful of attracting new members, whether they were previously members of APS with a wealth of experience or people new to the hobby.
The two posts above that I have quoted part of are all that needed to be said. They contain factual information without any personal or demeaning attacks. They majority of us are adults lets act like it and present the forum in a mature way to all existing and future members.
I thought mutations came about purely by chance. If that's the case then wouldn't an average keeper have a chance of ending up with a morph? I don't really follow morphs as I'm not particularly interested in them, and on top of that most of them are unobtainable in Western Australia, but it appears that the big, well known breeders end up with them first. Is this because they tend to have large collections? It raises their chance of ending up with something different?
What's scary is how easy it can be to get an exotic reptile in Aus- particularly smaller animals like Ball Pythons.
Google 'Ball Pythons for sale Australia' and I bet you a large amount of these exotic pythons will claim to be for sale in Aus. While I reckon a large majority of these are a scam, I do think there is some truth behind some of them- and let's not forget the 'secret' underground trade in exotics that undoubtedly exists.
If the government put any effort into finding these animals, I'm sure that they'd be able to find a large number of these exotics very easily.
When was the last time you heard of an arrest being made for someone illegally importing reptiles? Every single instantace I hear of, the reptiles are secondary to some major drug/arms bust
Scutellatus, that may be a fair enough comment, but the member who posted a very demeaning comment about someone who has tirelessly worked for decades to break new ground and develop pet herpetology in this country should not have his comment justified. That member landed the first "text-bashing" blow, and his comment was not benign, even though it might have been made in ignorance.
Facebook is the reason why these forums are not as active as they were a few years ago, not strong debates.
Personally, I don't think there were any personal attacks in any posts. Vehemently disagreeing with an outrageous post maybe, but nothing like the old APS was.
This particular forum member has a habit of making statements, inflammatory and otherwise, and either not backing them up or simply ducking for cover when called out.
There is a difference between humble opinion and a derogatory statement.