Found a Baby Pigeon!

Discussion in 'Other Animals and Invertebrate' started by Pythonlovers, Apr 5, 2013.

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  1. Wing_Nut

    Wing_Nut Well-Known Member

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    And since those pre-text book times Jamie there seems a strong and constant requirement to make things much more complicated than is required. A understanding of a range of approaches from the most primitive to the most complicated usually gives the best insight into what is the best process. Hand feeding grain works, and in my opinion would eliminate some of the potential pitfalls of other methods. I have done this before and it works fine. In a bind, I would use that technique again. Although primitive it shows an understanding of the basic biology of the animal. The KISS principle is alive and well.

    Regards

    Wing_Nut
     
  2. Pythonlovers

    Pythonlovers Active Member

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    Thanks again guys, I'm sure he will be fine!

    My partner and the landscapers keep arguing with me and they want to put it back in the fernery.
    I'm at work so I don't have time to argue! What do you guys think!

    P.S He is probably looking at this now!
     
  3. oOLaurenOo

    oOLaurenOo Well-Known Member

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    The parents would likely take it back. Birds are not as finicky as people think.
     
  4. The parents of a deserted dove will NOT take it back, period. It will die of cold or become cat fodder within the first few hours of darkness. Your statement that "birds are not as finicky as people think" indicates that you know nothing of doves. If it was a honeyeater, magpie or something with a strong social connections and a few brains, your statement may have some validity, but not in this case. Pigeons and doves are a natural prey species and will not expose themselves to ongoing threats - they will readily desert nests and young if they are interfered with.

    Jamie
     
  5. oOLaurenOo

    oOLaurenOo Well-Known Member

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    Sorry, guess my years of experience working as a veterinary nurse and dealing with hundreds of these doves every season counts for nothing. I have seen the parents take them back countless times. As long as they are placed back near (Preferably back in the nest but doesn't have to be) and left alone the parents most certainly will take them back.
     
  6. Wing_Nut

    Wing_Nut Well-Known Member

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    Unless you have a positive ID of the species, a broad response of the 'parents would likely take it back' could prove fatal to the youngster. Some species of pigeons and doves do in fact have a high maternal drive and will take young removed from the nest back, however the vast majority do not. Given that the nest site in this case was disturbed, I have to agree with Jamie in that the outlook for the squab would be bleak. I have kept and bred a great many dove species and also agree that many species of doves are very finicky. I have often experienced situations where squabs were reintroduced into nests, only to be abandoned a day or two later. Unless it is possible to offer such nests a reasonable amount of surveillance the outcome of any reintroduction is never really known. I certainly do not wish to offend your experience, however it is my experience that reintroduction of the most common species of doves in Australia to nests ultimately ends in death. If you are able to document the outcome of reintroductions and give me evidence to the contrary, I would be glad to broaden my knowledge base on these animals.

    Kind Regards

    Wing_Nut
     
  7. Lachie3112

    Lachie3112 Not so new Member

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    IMO if the bird is this young, which I'm guessing is 5-12 days old, it would die before its parents take it back. The bird doesn't even have feathers yet. I've seen baby birds get taken back but normally when they're older, not this young.
     
  8. mcloughlin2

    mcloughlin2 Well-Known Member

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    What's your plan for this bird if you do happen to successfully raise it? It's been confirmed that it isn't a native, so should not be released (unless you are okay with releasing corn snakes, boas, cane toads etc).
     
  9. andynic07

    andynic07 Very Well-Known Member

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    Not a bad point, is it even legal to release it?
     
  10. Pythonlovers

    Pythonlovers Active Member

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    Haven't got that far yet! Suggestions please D:
     
  11. andynic07

    andynic07 Very Well-Known Member

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    Can you keep it as a pet?
     
  12. Was waiting for that... these birds have been naturalised in many cities in Oz for a century now, and as far as I can see cause little harm - in fact they are frequent targets for cats, and probably deflect cats from seeking native birds. As far as I can see, they don't occupy any niches from which they may exclude native species, unlike starlings, sparrows and mynahs, nor do they occupy and damage dwellings like feral rock pigeons. Absolutely cannot be equated with Corn Snakes, Boas or Cane Toads.

    Jamie
     
  13. littlemay

    littlemay Well-Known Member

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    Not to pass judgement in any way, but i find it interesting the way people react to these sorts of threads depending on the type of animal that has been found.

    Often times if an injured snake snake has been found that a poster wishes to nurse back to health, they get hit with a ton of criticism along the lines of 'we should just let nature take its course'. Yet this isn't the case here? Admittedly the animal in question is not native and so direct ecological consequences of 'meddling with nature' might not be as relevant, but still.

    Just an observation.
     
  14. mcloughlin2

    mcloughlin2 Well-Known Member

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    While I admit it would seem you know far more about it then myself, my argument is it is becomes very difficult when you start to class some non native species as acceptable for care and release back into the environment. While cats may or may not prey on these species, perhaps if they do all this does is sustain semi feral and feral cat populations. My suggestion would be to euthanize it but I guess this isn't something you wish to pursue.
     
  15. It's unlikely that they would sustain a feral cat population because these introduced doves are only found in very close association with human urban habitation. I've lived rurally in WA and NSW and never seen them away from suburbia. At the end of the day, we can intellectualise forever about these things, but whatever the OP chooses to do, it won't make a jot of difference to the "environment." I see no downside in releasing it (or keeping it as a pet), the positives could be - target for a cat (rather than a native bird, food for a raptor (Falcon, goshawk, sparrowhawk (all of which love to eat them)), and as far as raising it goes, it could be a very rewarding learning and feelgood experience for the OP.

    Jamie
     
  16. Bluetongue1

    Bluetongue1 Guest

    Pythonlovers, the bird is a Spotted Dove (Streptopelia chinensis) aka Spotted Turtledove, Chinese Dove etc. It has the brown colour plumage and the shape and colour of the beak. From the limited view available, I would reckon it to be just over a week old. It will be independent within 2 or 3 weeks – they develop very quickly.

    This species is in aviculture so you will be able to keep it if you so wish. You would need to check your state regs to see if a licence is required and if there are any conditions attached. Given the bird’s wide spread distribution and its demonstrated reluctance to establish in natural habitat, my guess would be you won’t need a licence but it will be straight forward if you do.

    Good luck!


    Mcloughlin, all exotic animals present in Australia, or proposed to be brought here for whatever reason, have been assessed and graded across a range of criteria. These criteria look at things like the potential threats to our environment, the likelihood of a population establishing in various areas, information on their establishment outside their natural range anywhere else in the world, how invasive they may or may not be, the severity of their potential/actual effects on our environment etc. That is why it releasing corn snake or boas would attract court action and (hopefully) a stiff penalty. Releasing a cane toad in an area where cane toads are already well established would not even show on the radar. While deliberately releasing cane toads in an area not yet affected by them would find the culprit in serious hot water. So while there may be legislation prohibiting the release of any exotic, no-one in authority would even want to know about releasing the dove where it came from.

    “Meddling with nature” – what a wonderfully evocative phrase with such ubiquitous application. My only real issue is that I have not a clue what it means….


    Blue
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 5, 2013
  17. mcloughlin2

    mcloughlin2 Well-Known Member

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    I agree with both the posts above this and am aware of the grading of non native animals and different levels of invasiveness. My argument is purely from looking at it with the general publics perception in my mind. If we class a bird as acceptable to release when it is non native then why not the corn snake (even though i myself can see the difference). At the end of the day it doesn't really make a difference and you are both a wealth of knowledge so I don't wish to argue the point any further. :)
     
  18. phantomreptiles

    phantomreptiles Well-Known Member

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    My two cents is in QLD any native creature must be only raised by a certified carer and if not native, humanely euthanised:(
    Harsh yes, but our Eco system is fragile enough:(
    I appreciate the OP is not in Qld, so law is different, but as I said "just my two cents worth;)"


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  19. Bluetongue1

    Bluetongue1 Guest

    I did not consider it “arguing”. I was simply trying to answer the above question.

    Checkout the activities of the Victorian Acclimatisation Society, established in 1861. The society deliberately attempted to naturalise plants and animals from other places (for a number of reasons). The results of their endeavours ranged from complete failure to some measure of localised success to being to successful. In the latter category are organisms such as blackberries, rabbits and foxes which have become noxious pests to their invasive capacities to establish in native bushland and the detrimental effects they have on native ecosystems. The point this demonstrates is that different exotic plants and animals are NOT EQUAL in the threat they pose to natural ecosystems.

    There is also a major difference between releasing an individual into a population that is established, stabilised and its effects known and limited to areas of human habitation versus releasing an individual that is not established and has been assessed as posing an “extreme” threat of establishment and detrimental ecological effect. The “extreme” is its official government categorisation, not mine.


    Phantomreptiles, a good point and one I was tempted to elaborate on earlier but had already written too much. I’ll just chuck in my thoughts now, if that’s OK? With legislation it is often not practical in many instances to make exceptions. Their can be far too many possible sets of circumstances, each with its own set of influencing factors. As a result, decrees of an all encompassing nature are often passed. The interpretation of how and when that legislation should be applied is up to the legal system – enforcement agencies and the court system. For example, it is illegal to shoplift. However, there is a difference in how you would an adult who pinches a grape and eats it versus an adult who steals a $1,000 watch.

    Blue
     
  20. mcloughlin2

    mcloughlin2 Well-Known Member

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    You have mis quoted me and left out the most important part of the sentence - I already know what you are saying. However your average Joe down the street won't know about the impacts of species a versus species b and this is where the problem is. So while I recognise that letting this bird go in the scheme of things will not negatively impact on the environment (based on information you have told me and the fact it is well established already) Joe is not going to be able to assess the situation properly and will decide his single corn snake won't do any harm to the environment. If we did out a blanket ban on all non native species being cared for an released then maybe we would get somewhere and Joe would go well actually I don't think this is native so maybe I shouldn't.

    While we are still discussing this I might as well bring up a point which I was going to last night but decided not too. You seem to assume that when I said these doves may help sustain semi feral and feral cats populations that I was talking about those in remote areas. What I had in mind were actually those populations which live in suburbia (I could name three local locations with a population of feral cats which may rely on these doves being a prey item for food). Implications of this are this also put natives at risk that these cats may come across.

    At the end of the day do I think they are a big problem? No. Do I think they have no adverse impact on the environment? No.
     
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