Frog and snake ID

[eipper]

I am we'll aware of the Sydney whips and browns I caught plenty of both and for the most part generally body form is close enough to make them tough to spilt from a blurry picture. The eye size in Pseudonaja textilis varies from place to place with some localities the eye size 50% larger in relation to head length. While granted the eyes for psammophis are almost always larger than textilis.

Again we can agree to disagree. Me going back over the same points is not going to change the facts as I see them.

As my thoughts well I can be fairly sure what its not.....but to quantify why is frankly subjective and too long winded

 

[Bluetongue1]

Both of you gentlemen have valid arguments. The question is, at what point, due to lack of adequate information, do you simply say “cannot be identified”. Do we draw a line in the sand... one likely/definite species only? Or do we allow a number of possibilities?

I note that you guys have been discussing the relative merits of each side of the coin in the context of circumstances and benefits to the enquirer. Clearly the circumstances surrounding requests for IDs are many and varied. Would a hard and fast ruling povide them all with their potential benefits?

A point to consider. It seems to me where a single species can be identified, several posters confirm that and the obviously incorrect answers are identified as such in the process. However, where the exact identity cannot be ascertained, many incorrect possibilities go unchallenged. How is the final list of possibilities to be honed down?

Blue

 

[Bushman]

Well said Blue. I can likewise see both sides of the argument. Thanks for your contributions gentleman, including 'Egernia' who we don't see often but you put up a good argument. It's been an interesting, though-provoking discussion that has pushed our boundaries in this regard. Sure, we can suggest likely candidates based on locality and narrow it down a bit with the sketchy pic but there's not much to go on really. Although unlikely, there is also the chance of it being an exotic species, which are increasingly being found in cities like Sydney (it could be a juvenile Black Mamba). So it's not wise to play guessing games when dealing with potentially venomous and deadly species.

The bottom line is that we cannot positively identify that snake from the photo and description provided, so we are just speculating, which is dangerous with snake ID's.
I don't think that there's much more that needs to be said.

 

[Egernia]

A point to consider. It seems to me where a single species can be identified, several posters confirm that and the obviously incorrect answers are identified as such in the process. However, where the exact identity cannot be ascertained, many incorrect possibilities go unchallenged. How is the final list of possibilities to be honed down?

In the case of good photos that enable a positive ID perhaps the mods could make a final post clarifying what the animal is and the reasons why and then close the thread. That way people can look at the first post asking for the ID and refer to the last post giving the ID and reasons why. They can then refer to the posts in between for further info and discussion.

In the case of a thread such as this one where no positive ID is possible I guess the important thing is for each individual who posts a suggestion to clarify why they are making the suggestion. I realise that is a rule of the forum but perhaps mods need to remove posts that dont do this to ensure that if people want their posts to remain they provide the info. That way if someone does post a suggestion that is way off they likely wont be able to clarify why they believe it is a valid suggestion and their post would be removed.

I think I might stay off the ID forum in future as it appears that a lot of improvements have already been made and I would hate to be any part of undoing those. In the past there were quite a lot of random guesses which did no one any good and in that regard I can understand everyones concerns!

 

[Bluetongue1]

I have deliberately held my tongue until now as I was wondering if someone else might mention this. I see the ID forum as performing an instructional role for forum members as well as identifying species for those making enquiries. Producing a list of possibilities, so long clear reasons are given, satisfies alternative function. So does eliminating possible species, giving clear reasons. Interactions between posters to question or valid choices should also occur. The exchange of information is where others can learn.

Egernia,
Your ability to articulate clearly and your extensive field experience and knowledge would clearly be assets to this forum’s users and readers. And for selfish reasons, I would be pleased to see more of your contributions.

Blue

 

[Bushman]

In the case of good photos that enable a positive ID perhaps the mods could make a final post clarifying what the animal is and the reasons why and then close the thread. That way people can look at the first post asking for the ID and refer to the last post giving the ID and reasons why. They can then refer to the posts in between for further info and discussion.

In the case of a thread such as this one where no positive ID is possible I guess the important thing is for each individual who posts a suggestion to clarify why they are making the suggestion. I realise that is a rule of the forum but perhaps mods need to remove posts that dont do this to ensure that if people want their posts to remain they provide the info. That way if someone does post a suggestion that is way off they likely wont be able to clarify why they believe it is a valid suggestion and their post would be removed.

I think I might stay off the ID forum in future as it appears that a lot of improvements have already been made and I would hate to be any part of undoing those. In the past there were quite a lot of random guesses which did no one any good and in that regard I can understand everyones concerns!

Thanks for your suggestions. I think they're good ideas and worth considering. I'll discuss it with the other mods and admin, as we're open to ideas such as this.

I agree with Blue that your contributions to this thread are welcome and it's discussions such as this, that despite opposing points of view, enrich this forum.