frog ID's

Discussion in 'Reptile and Amphibian Identification' started by Ramsayi, Feb 11, 2018.

  1. Ramsayi

    Ramsayi Very Well-Known Member APS Veteran

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    Can anyone ID these guys.Living in a heavily planted shady area of the garden among elkhorns near RNP.
    IMG_2201.JPG IMG_2205.JPG IMG_2208.JPG
     
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  2. Scutellatus

    Scutellatus Well-Known Member

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    I am thinking Leaf Green Tree Frogs (Litoria phyllochroa). I am not a frog keeper so I can't be sure but the stripe above the eye definitely fits.
     
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  3. Foozil

    Foozil Well-Known Member

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    I agree, as you can see on this ALA map they are very common around the RNP:
    Screen Shot 2018-02-11 at 6.55.52 pm.png
     
  4. Flaviemys purvisi

    Flaviemys purvisi Very Well-Known Member

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    That is el-correcto.
     
  5. Ramsayi

    Ramsayi Very Well-Known Member APS Veteran

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    Thanks guys.Strange that there is no water around so at a bit of a loss as to why they are there.The brown one is a fair bit smaller than the green one.Am guessing male and female?
     
  6. Scutellatus

    Scutellatus Well-Known Member

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    Tree frogs don't necessarily need a large water body to breed. They will do it anywhere there is standing water, ie: drainpipes, a bucket left in the yard that has collected water, a water tank etc.
    I had a group living in my yard and all that was there was a bunnings 500L water tank. At one point the kids had collected ten juveniles, they could never find the adults though. They seemed to favour the pumpkin patch.
     
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  7. Foozil

    Foozil Well-Known Member

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    And, of course, the toilet :D
     
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  8. Flaviemys purvisi

    Flaviemys purvisi Very Well-Known Member

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    Yep, have found them there too. I had a pair spawn in my dogs water bucket, a repurposed 4 litre ice-cream bucket. I've got 3 or 4 living in the drain pipe to my 1500 litre galvanised rainwater tank in the back undercover area. They cross the yard each night to visit my woody bin.
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2018
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  9. Bluetongue1

    Bluetongue1 APS Veteran APS Veteran

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    The ID is correct, given the expanded toe pads (Litoria), smooth skin and patternless green colour on the dorsum, with only a pale line edged below with a darker line, around the perimeter of the front half.

    The majority of tree frog species do not need to live in or near a substantial body of water, except when breeding. They are essentially terrestrial. To conserve moisture they choose protected, often moist spots to remain inactive during the day to avoid the drying effects of the sun. Instead they are active at night when evaporation rates are low. In particularly hot, dry weather they will even remain inactive at night, and in wet weather they will become active during the day. The bases of elkhorns act like a sponge, soaking up water and retaining a lot of moisture. So these would make for an excellent daytime refuge where there would be little to no water loss from the frogs to their environment. Pot plant collection are also a favourite refuge for the same reasons. Frogs can rehydrate by burrowing into moist leaf litter or soil, or even soaking up the dew that collects on large leaves.
     
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  10. GBWhite

    GBWhite Well-Known Member

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    The colour has nothing to do with defining sex. These guys can be either a light green or dark olive green as demonstrated with the pics.

    As far as I'm aware the taxonomy of the species is currently under review with those south of Sydney from Wollongong to Eastern Victoria currently being classified as Litoria nudidigata and those from Sydney to Coffs Harbour classified as Litoria phyllochroa. On top of this they are assumed to hybridize in the zone between Wollongong and Sydney where they show characteristics of both species. So given that it's from the RNP south of Sydney it could be a hybrid of both.

    Defining morphological characteristics which identify each species include;

    L. nudidigata - tympanum (eardrum) located just behind the eye is indistinct
    - shoulders red to black colour
    L. phyllochroa - tympanum distinct
    - shoulders red to brown

    Either way What i did notice is that the light green one in the first pic appears to have a noticeable concave behind the eye indicating a visible tympanum.


    IMG_2201.JPG
     
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  11. Bluetongue1

    Bluetongue1 APS Veteran APS Veteran

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    I didn’t really know anything about the biology of these guys but I now understand why you though it unusual there was not a stream or similar water body nearby. All I can suggest is that they have finished their breeding for the year and dispersed a little further afield to take pressure of limited food resources and having to compete with other frogs.

    In my experience the tympanum is not a particularly consistent distinguishing characteristic. A better one IMO (but still not perfect) is the size and length of the dark band along the edge of the head and down the side. Along with the light stripe, it is substantially broader and longer in nudidigtatus and can be very black in colour in this species.

    Location is the best indicator of species, except in the zone of overlap. This starts just south of Sydney, around Stanwell Tops/Darkes Forest and extends to just past Wollongong.
     
  12. GBWhite

    GBWhite Well-Known Member

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    In my experience it is. The RNP is within the area where the two species overlap, the RNP runs from Stanwell Park to Loftus/Sutherland. Spent a good 2/3 of my youth and several of my adult years combining all the south coast for herps and found plenty of both within the boundaries of the RNP.
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2018
  13. Bluetongue1

    Bluetongue1 APS Veteran APS Veteran

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    I also herped that area over while growing up, including Waterfall and Helensburgh (Kelly’s Creek area). It was a species I seldom came across and never once came across a heavily patterned individual like the southern species. I did come across more of them once old enough to drive and able to go out frogging on wet nights, However, I barely ever went to RNP for herping by then. Irrespective of where the boundary is, I consider the light coloured individual in the opening post to definitely be the northern species.
     
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  14. Foozil

    Foozil Well-Known Member

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    just out of curiosity, what other species did you find around there?
     
  15. GBWhite

    GBWhite Well-Known Member

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  16. Foozil

    Foozil Well-Known Member

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    Sorry meant reptiles/amphibians in general. I live near there and I would just like to know what you can find :)
     
  17. GBWhite

    GBWhite Well-Known Member

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    Buddy you need to buy a field guide for NSW reptiles and amphibians and do a bit of research.
     
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  18. Foozil

    Foozil Well-Known Member

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    I do. :(
     
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  19. Ramsayi

    Ramsayi Very Well-Known Member APS Veteran

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    Would a single spawn produce both colour types?

    Any point in giving them a permanent water source such as a half wine barrel with a small water pump to encourage them to stick around?
     
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  20. cris

    cris Almost Legendary

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    Not sure about this species, but many frogs can just change colour green to gold/brown etc.
     

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