Gay Discrimination

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Steve I'm the first one to attack your views however with the last pos the fact you are at least questioning your stance is a good thing. And weather you support it or not that's all we ask.

There are several 'levels' of bi, some can form relationships with male and female partners some form relationships with 1 sex and pure physical with the other that's the main type however I believe some but not all would have relationships with the same sex but straight relationships being socially acceptable it's easier that path.

I have always been gay, never had a straight relationship except one at high school but more so I could hang with the gf best friends bf we use to go skinny dipping in the local creek - so I had other motives :)
 
I joined this reptile site to stop me spending too much time on "those other sites "............who would ever believe it ?
 
what are you trying to say sesa-sayin? i dont quite follow...
 
My reasons are hard to put into words I have touched on them in previous posts but I'll try and elaborate further.

Will you agree that depression, suicide, drug abuse, victimization, harrasment and discrimination are all higher amongst gay people, in particularly men?
Now bring a child with no say in how they are bought up into the equation. From experience (I'm a father) I know that at 4and 5yo they are already getting an understanding of what society sees as normal, most have a mum and dad, they regularly see hetero couples on TV and while out shopping, they set up families with dolls and teddys etc etc.
Before they have even walked into a class room they have probably already asked why they don't have either a mum or a dad, The parents even with best intentions on bringing up their child, in a round abouts way (we are talking too 5yos) go's on to explains that although a little bit different from most families we are still normal, which is fine until they go to class and introduce their dads to their friends, who in turn go home and tell their parents that their new class mate has same sex parents, which quite likely results in muttered words in front of that child that would be considered highly offensive to gay people, the child then takes this back to the school yard, tells the other kids what his parents said and the cycle of bullying, confusion, possible drug abuse etc etc begins.

You can tell me all you like that you will bring up kids in a loving and open minded environment etc,etc but as a parent myself I don't see why you would want to get your child of to that kind of start in life.
discrimination and persecution based on sexuality is wrong, but unfortunately it's a fact of life and a gay couple that brings a child into that environment is going to be a party to that childs suffering.
There are reasons for the high rates of depression/suicide etc among gay men and they're the same reasons that a child is at greater risk of developing these problems if they're subjected to the same treatment

i KNOW i WOULDN'T HAVE LIKED GROWING UP THE SON OF TWO DADS
 
Steve, I felt that we had all kind of come to the end of that particular discussion.
I think you have put your point across, which is perfectly ok, but can we stop now?
 
steve1 said:
i KNOW i WOULDN'T HAVE LIKED GROWING UP THE SON OF TWO DADS

I'm sure you wouldn't have minded at all, since you'd be far more open-minded and accepting then you are now ;)
 
LOL Could it be that it is actually me who is being open minded and the narrow view is that these children are going to grow up well adjusted individuals free from the depressions and torments suffered by their well intentioned parents?
 
steve1 said:
LOL Could it be that it is actually me who is being open minded and the narrow view is that these children are going to grow up well adjusted individuals free from the depressions and torments suffered by their well intentioned parents?

Do you even have any evidence that children will be worse off raised by two gay parents versus the stereotypical man and wife? Where's the statistics that children raised with two gay parents will have a higher rate of depression and suicide? All I'm seeing is a narrow minded opinion that advocates that children of rape victims and drug addicted parents (as an example) will be better off over children raised by gay parents simply because they're "normal".

Just my opinion, of course.
 
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Statistics show that rates of suicide, drugabuse and depression are high amongst gay men I made the assumption that there would be a high probability of this amongst these children given they would be subjected to the same prejudices and discrimantions that there parents suffered as well as confusion over their own sexuality, I never said that this is how it would always be but asked the question should we take the risk.

Please show me whereabouts I advocate that victims of abuse and and drug addicted parents would be better of than the children of same sex couples. Don't put words in my mouth (so to speak)
 
Did no one read kaotikjeztas post after I made an assumption that kids growing up with homosexual parents would be ridiculed? She said there was validity to my statement and her son went through this sort of torment. Maybe you guys have forgotten what kids are like. Sure, kids can be ridiculed for a mole on their face, but parents can't help that. People that want to look after kids, but know the child would be ridiculed because they are looking after them, should take a step back and think.

It would be the same as a person that could hardly afford to feed themselves thinking whether or not it would be a good idea to raise a child. Mental health is just as important as physical health, and if a child is ridiculed for its whole school life, that can translate to many problems in adult hood. Things don't need to be proven by science to be common sense.

I know what children are like, and they can be brutal.
 
My reasons are hard to put into words I have touched on them in previous posts but I'll try and elaborate further.

Will you agree that depression, suicide, drug abuse, victimization, harrasment and discrimination are all higher amongst gay people, in particularly men?
Now bring a child with no say in how they are bought up into the equation. From experience (I'm a father) I know that at 4and 5yo they are already getting an understanding of what society sees as normal, most have a mum and dad, they regularly see hetero couples on TV and while out shopping, they set up families with dolls and teddys etc etc.
Before they have even walked into a class room they have probably already asked why they don't have either a mum or a dad, The parents even with best intentions on bringing up their child, in a round abouts way (we are talking too 5yos) go's on to explains that although a little bit different from most families we are still normal, which is fine until they go to class and introduce their dads to their friends, who in turn go home and tell their parents that their new class mate has same sex parents, which quite likely results in muttered words in front of that child that would be considered highly offensive to gay people, the child then takes this back to the school yard, tells the other kids what his parents said and the cycle of bullying, confusion, possible drug abuse etc etc begins.

You can tell me all you like that you will bring up kids in a loving and open minded environment etc,etc but as a parent myself I don't see why you would want to get your child of to that kind of start in life.
discrimination and persecution based on sexuality is wrong, but unfortunately it's a fact of life and a gay couple that brings a child into that environment is going to be a party to that childs suffering.
There are reasons for the high rates of depression/suicide etc among gay men and they're the same reasons that a child is at greater risk of developing these problems if they're subjected to the same treatment

i KNOW i WOULDN'T HAVE LIKED GROWING UP THE SON OF TWO DADS

Steve, you are thinking of this issue all wrong.

I've been working for the last 8 years with kids who come from broken homes, have no parents and live in absolute poverty. I don't have a statistic to back me up here but i don't think i really need one. I can tell you the The rates of the children growing up in the environments i just mentioned are far more likely to not get an education, commit crime, go to jail and commit suicide than gay people.

The children who are adopted have no homes and no parents. Their best hope is to be placed into a family that will love them and help them grow into a person that is happy and contributes to society. Living with gay parents may not be perfect, it may even suck balls at times but it would be much better than growing up without any parents at all.

Think of it as making the best of a bad situation.
 
Would it be descrimination if I asked to open a nightclub where only straight people were allowed? Because to my understanding there are gay only clubs throughout Australia. Would I be descriminating if i opened a primary school only for Australian Children? Because there are schools in my area that only allow children of middle east decent and to my knowledge only teach there ways. How about if i made a retirement viliage for only white people? Because as we speek the aboriginals in my area are building a retirment village where only aboriginals are welcome. Don't get me wrong, I don't care if these things happen but why when the reverse is happening people jump up and down and scream descrimination? I understand descrimination happens but it happens to everyone and if people had better stuff to do with there time we'd all realize the world isn't as bad as we fear. True, some issues do need to be delt with but I don't think it's half as bad as people carry on about. A park opened recently where only midgets could work, it was some theme park filled with hired midgets who chose to work with people like themselves and have a blast along the way, but a group lobeyed against it saying it was descriminating against the midgets, one person I saw complaining on behalf of the midgets was six foot tall, err, hello??? I like the way you made sure you weren't trying to be politically incorrect but doesn't our goverment endorse racism. The few times I've been in trouble with the police they've asked me if i was of aboriginal or non aboriginal decent, is there a right and wrong answere here? Dont we all want to be treated as equals? I hope no one takes anything of what I've said as offencive, I have no intentions of descriminating against anyway. As for gay's, I've met and made friends with a number of both male and female gays over the years, some are still very close friends and never had any drama with that, so long as people respect me and my way of life I'm happy to return to gesture.
 
Would it be descrimination if I asked to open a nightclub where only straight people were allowed? Because to my understanding there are gay only clubs throughout Australia.

Not sure if that's true, how would they police this??

On the other hand fernwood gym only have female members why's that maybe they were not comfortable for what ever reason to go to unisex gyms. Possible leering and harassment from guys trying to pick up i'd guess why else??.

We are not asking for special treatment here just to be equal.

I think that an aboriginal only retirement village is fine,...they are a minority and im sure it's a hell of a process to get in anywhere else. They just want what others have so they create their own bubble if no one else is going to stick out a lending hand. Untill you are a minority and cop what's dished up you really have no idea what it's like seriously.
 
steve1 said:
Please show me whereabouts I advocate that victims of abuse and and drug addicted parents would be better of than the children of same sex couples. Don't put words in my mouth (so to speak)

Those examples were perhaps a little too strong. Although I'm a little unsure what your choice would be between a gay couple and a drug addicted family for a child to be adopted into.

There are plenty of couples out there who should not ever be allowed to breed, yet they're fully allowed to bring children into broken homes or into lives of abuse because they're straight? Why should they get precedence over two gay people that will love and cherish any children they're "allowed" to raise? What a twisted world we live in.

I cannot think of any better parents to raise open-minded and accepting children then a gay couple. Who better to teach a child about the hardships of life and how to deal with them? Certainly not the homophobes out there that think sexuality is a valid reason to judge someone as unfit, for anything at all.


m.punja said:
Because to my understanding there are gay only clubs throughout Australia.

I have no problem with discriminated-against minorities wanting a sanctuary in this world full of hate. My opinion, of course. I'm sure others will disagree.
 
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I cannot think of any better parents to raise open-minded and accepting children then a gay couple. Who better to teach a child about the hardships of life and how to deal with them?
Not entirely true...Straight, intelligent, accepting and realistic parents can do the same! :)
Sometimes a persecuted and ill-treated sector of the community can express their opinions on their offspring, due to their treatment in society.
We as parents always have our opinions that we may, or may not speak out in anger or in conversation, which kids pick up on. I as a parent never try to preach what I think is right in controversial topics...hey my opinion is mine and not what is necessarily correct!!
It takes a very level headed Gay couple to teach their kid/s that their lifestyle is the norm and for that kid to go to school feeling like all the other kids in the playground. How does a parent NOT say that they have not been persecuted and for the kid to grow up and NOT feel morally obligated to their parents injustice? I would find that hard to deal with with if I was a Gay parent and would love to know how Gay parents with older kids manage this.
 
Southside Morelia said:
Not entirely true...Straight, intelligent, accepting and realistic parents can do the same! :)

Don't get me wrong, I do agree. However, there seems to be a much higher number of racist or discriminating straight people then there are gay people.

I as a parent never try to preach what I think is right in controversial topics

I personally think this should be the case in every household. However, you get things like religious families that think their way is the only right way and the children ultimately suffer for it.
 
Steve1 I really enjoy your input into this thread and have been interested to read what you have to say. Of course you are entitiled to your opinion-everyone has one, and I find it interesting to hear the other side of things when it's not put in a ridiculing way. In your last post, you mentioned kids going home from school and mentioning 'two mummies' or 'two daddies' and I thought it was funny that the only problem you raised was that the parents would mutter words that the kids would take back to school. And here lies the problem!! I believe young kids would be perfectly accepting of this situation, it's when they go back and speak to adults who aren't so open minded that the think there's a problem with it. So maybe it's just a case of re-educating the adults to ensure these kids don't cop so much slack at school. I also believe though that kids will tease kids for ANYTHING at school. Sad but true!
 
As a gay parent i dont see what the issue is in raising kids in a gay relationship. i was born of straight parents, have straight siblings, straight friends, and even thought i was straight for a long time. so i dont see that me being gay is such a big deal- its not like i live in an enclave- i live in a world of mixed people- open or closed minded, consservative, liberal, poor or well off- and a child learns acceptance and values from thier parents or caring adults close to them, no matter what thier sexual orientation. The paradox is those who think gays are people 'over there' somewhere- they are the nurses, doctors, ambos, teachers, office workers,labourers, farmers, busdrivers, or police that you see and talk to every day. 1 in 10 people are homosexual!
 
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