Help ID shed skin found in NW Sydney

[MrsSquizzy]

Hi,
My two dogs had spent a bit of time in the back garden and when we went to investigate, we found the shed skin as shown in the photos attached.
Is anyone able to identify if this is a python or snake - and if snake, what sort? It's not very long (~under a metre), but it doesn't appear to have a full tail attached. We do live near an area of cleared vegetation, and previously have had wild mice in the area - not that any have been seen for a while.
Our dogs are VERY inquisitive, and we're a little worried that if it's a snake, our dogs could come to harm.
We live in Kellyville Ridge, north-west of Sydney.
Thanx!

 

[1issie]

Looks like a eastern brown to me but im no expert

 

[giggle]

Wow great photos, you are sure to get an ID with these. I cant give you a 100% sure ID... but its not a python... by the look of the head scales it is a venomous snake. Someone will be able to tell you which one soon... but don't panic, I am not certain exactly how venomous or whether its a danger to you or your dogs Don't go searching for it whatever you do!!! Thats the best way for people to get bitten!

 

[cadwallader]

yer i was thinking eastern brown because of the larger scales on it head but havent checked just what i thought...

 

[giggle]

Looks like a eastern brown to me but im no expert

Yeah 1issie that was my thoughts but I am far from an expert. The only thing I can 100% be certain of is that its not a python and the scale pattern on the head suggests its a venomous snake. I will see if I can find the diagrams they have for scale patterns for identifying venomous from non-venomous...

 

[cadwallader]

i would think that doing a scale count will be the easiest would it not?

 

[louise77]

I live in Rouse Hill (just up the road from you) and I've heard reports of Eastern Browns around (one was apparently at the Town Centre a few weeks ago). But I'm knew to this snake game and just getting to know pythons so I couldn't tell by the skin - someone will though

 

[snakeluvver]

I think a brown as well

 

[snakeluvver]

I just looked up a pic of a brown snakes head and the scales look the same as this shed skin.

 

[Snakeluvver2]

No offense but don't try and do an I.D unless you know for certain what it is.

 

[cadwallader]

should get a local re locators number ready in case you see it, but there is everyr chance it has moved one by now.

 

[1issie]

No offense but don't try and do an I.D unless you know for certain what it is.[/QUOTE

None taken,just trying to be helpful

 

[Bushman]

As already stated, it's not a python skin. It looks like a large elapid but we need scale counts to ID it with any certainty.

Do you have the tail section? We need to know if the subcaudals are entire or divided and ideally how many.
Can you do a mid-body scale count?

 

[waruikazi]

I just looked up a pic of a brown snakes head and the scales look the same as this shed skin.

Now look up a head pic of a keelback (Tropidonophis mairii), I don't mean to offend but with your level of experience you probably couldn't tell the difference.

I haven't said anything because i can't tell what it is from the pictures provided. But i don't think it is a brown because i can see what i think are a row of supralabial scales that browns don't have, but i haven't commented because it could just be from the way the shed has curled up.

 

[snakeluvver]

Now look up a head pic of a keelback (Tropidonophis mairii), I don't mean to offend but with your level of experience you probably couldn't tell the difference.

ok your right, the head scales look very similar.

 

[1issie]

They are sorta similar but ive seen browns and their sheds and the way their scales are.. it just seems as if its a brown.

 

[MrsSquizzy]

As already stated, it's not a python skin. It looks like a large elapid but we need scale counts to ID it with any certainty.

Do you have the tail section? We need to know if the subcaudals are entire or divided and ideally how many.
Can you do a mid-body scale count?

==> Hi Bushman,
The dorsal scales at mid-body count at 17, but unfortunately the tail section is missing (perhaps entirely after the cloaca?) so I can't comment on whether the subcaudals are entire or divided.

 

[MrsSquizzy]

Now look up a head pic of a keelback (Tropidonophis mairii), I don't mean to offend but with your level of experience you probably couldn't tell the difference.

I haven't said anything because i can't tell what it is from the pictures provided. But i don't think it is a brown because i can see what i think are a row of supralabial scales that browns don't have, but i haven't commented because it could just be from the way the shed has curled up.

==>Hi Waruikazi,
Took me a while to work out what supralabial scales are, but there are definitely none of these present - ie the scales that are directly below the eyes, are the one and same that then border the mouth. You were correct in that it is the way in which the shed has curled up.

 

[Bushman]

Eastern Brown Snake (Pseudonaja textilis) has 17 midbody scales but so does the Red-bellied Black Snake (Pseudechis porphyriacus).

 

[waruikazi]

==>Hi Waruikazi,
Took me a while to work out what supralabial scales are, but there are definitely none of these present - ie the scales that are directly below the eyes, are the one and same that then border the mouth. You were correct in that it is the way in which the shed has curled up.

Righto, with that cleared up and the darker blotches that you can see on the belly scales i think it is most likely a brown. I'm not 100% sure though and i probably wouldn't have given an ID if i wasn't already involved in this thread.