Help- Snakes all grown up : )

Discussion in 'Herp Help' started by Gem, Jan 24, 2018.

  1. Gem

    Gem Not so new Member

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    Hey guys,
    So I have 3 Antaresias that I've had since they were hatchies (3 months-ish old)
    Two of them have recently reached the yearling mark with the oldest being a year and 3 months old.
    I was wondering what (if any) significant changes I should make.

    They are on heat mats 24/7 with a good, consistent gradiant, I have recently turned the mats off however as I live in QLD and it's consistently in the mid 30s in the snake room during the day and not dropping below the mid 20s at night- but I want to be prepared with what I need to do for winter : )
    They are on weaner rats- one every 10 days.

    This has all been working well so far, they have been shedding every 6 weeks-ish (I have a chart to keep track), are always easy to handle, poop consistently and they look and act how healthy snakes should.
    So with that in mind, do I need to change anything with heating? Or change how often I feed them?
    I have managed to successfully get them through the hatchie stage with no problems and I really want to keep them healthy as they enter adulthood so any tips would be appreciated

    Thanks : )
    Gem
     
  2. Prof_Moreliarty

    Prof_Moreliarty Well-Known Member

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    Hi at that age i no longer bother with night time heat and will start looking at moving them from tubs to larger more permanent homes, you may notice them go off food over winter which is a normal thing for ants however my spotty didnt do this till 2 years old. everything sounds fine you could move them to larger meals once a fortnight, once my snakes are adults they get a large meal every 3-5 weeks.
     
  3. dragonlover1

    dragonlover1 Subscriber Subscriber

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    I have 3YO pygmy banded pythons who get an adult mouse every Saturday,2YO spottted who gets a wiener mouse, and a 2YO Childrens who also gets a wiener mouse.This seems to be adequate for these guys.But will up the size for the spotted and childrens as they grow.
    I have never had night time heat except for juvies in winter.I can't see any reason to change.
     
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  4. Gem

    Gem Not so new Member

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    Thanks for your replies guys : )
    I have actually already started the search for their permanent enclosures which is exciting, picked up a nice secondhand wooden one to try with one of them first
    Glad to hear I can pretty much keep going as I am
    I'll definitely look for another heat source with a timer so they can go off night time heat, it never gets that cold up here anyway
    Thanks so much!
    Gem
     
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  5. Prof_Moreliarty

    Prof_Moreliarty Well-Known Member

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    A word of caution with second hand enclosures @Gem i try to find out what was housed in them previously and will always give them a good clean with F10 before introducing them into my collection.
     
  6. Gem

    Gem Not so new Member

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    Thanks for letting me know
    The previous owner hadn't used it for some time (around 5 years) but it had pythons in it previously, I'll definitely give it a good clean and disinfect it before I put one of my guys in it.

    Thanks again for the advice!
    Gem
     
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  7. Flaviemys purvisi

    Flaviemys purvisi Very Well-Known Member

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    Hi Gem... this is just me asking, because this is something I've seen a lot of debate over... if your Anteresia are on weaner rats and that's a suitable sized meal for them, then by comparison, wouldn't large adult mice be better?? Many people have the opinion that adult mice have a fully developed skeleton, greater bone density/integrity, therefore more calcium is available rather than in the soft, still developing bones of a baby rat...

    I don't know, I'm just asking... my ants are still young and on weaner mice and at this stage I think they'll stay on mice as adults.

    Something I see talked about a lot.
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2018
  8. SpottedPythons

    SpottedPythons Well-Known Member

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    I never keep spotteds on mice when adult - they can handle meals much larger. I feed mine juvenile rats once every fortnight when around 2YO and they get it down quickly. The hatchlings start on pinkie mice, then work their way up through the mice and then the rats.
     
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  9. Flaviemys purvisi

    Flaviemys purvisi Very Well-Known Member

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    Hi mate, that doesn't answer my question though... the bone integrity of adult mice compared to young rats is what I'm wanting to know about... if a large adult mouse weighed the same as a young half grown rat, why opt for the half developed rat over the fully developed mouse? That's what I want to know... that's all... what is the benefit of offering the snake a same sized meal with arguably less calcium and D3 available??
     
  10. cement

    cement Subscriber Subscriber APS Veteran

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    Adult spotted will take a 90-100 gram rat easily. Also, may not mean anything but I've fed them on rats this size for over 10 years, they are in extremely good condition, breed like anything and never had a slug, so the difference may be quite negligible. Mind you, adult mice are half the size, of these rats, so two adult mice could be argued they getting to much fur....not that I see that as a problem.
     
  11. Flaviemys purvisi

    Flaviemys purvisi Very Well-Known Member

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    You can get jumbo mice that are 90g...
    Is a 90g rat a full adult sized rat?
    --- Automatic Post Merged, Jan 25, 2018, Original Post Date: Jan 25, 2018 ---
    All good, I wasn't concerned with the physical meal size or weight, just the bone integrity comparison of adult mice V weaner rats. Just seems that the adult mice, being fully developed would be the better option.
     
  12. Scutellatus

    Scutellatus Well-Known Member

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    Calcium levels are greater in human children than adults, they are at their highest in teenage years through to early adulthood, rodents are probably very similar. The bone structure of a rat would be bulkier than that of the same sized mouse I would think.
     
  13. Flaviemys purvisi

    Flaviemys purvisi Very Well-Known Member

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    Apparently not.

    Comparison of Murine and Human Skeletal Physiology

    In most mouse strains, peak bone mass is achieved at 4–6 months of age, as determined by dual-energy X-ray absorptiometry to quantify the calcium content of the entire skeleton (minus the head). Thus, unlike humans, bone acquisition and longitudinal bone growth continue in mice after sexual maturity, which occurs at 6–8 weeks of age. Bone mass increases further between 6 and 12 months of age in females of half of the 34 strains examined in the mouse phenome database and in males in 2/3 of these strains, with the magnitude of the increase ranging from 5% to 10%

    Going by this, adult mice would be superior to juvenile rats for calcium and D3 content... Unless of course ANTS could eat whole adult rats, then that'd be the same.

    But it's interesting. Me personally, I think I'll keep my lot on mice rather than moving to weaner rats.
     
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  14. SpottedPythons

    SpottedPythons Well-Known Member

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    Not the same weight - the ones I feed are much, much larger than adult mice. I go from the small sizes of mice up until they are too large for any size of mice. Calcium and D3 can be added using supplements, since there is no mouse big enough for an healthy sized adult spotted. Adult mice are just too small for Spotteds, and they should not be fed the same things as the smaller ants, since most people underestimate their size.
     
  15. Flaviemys purvisi

    Flaviemys purvisi Very Well-Known Member

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    I think going by the analysis that unless a snake can eat fully grown adult rats, they'd be better off on adult mice rather than half grown rats... That's what I'm going to do for my ants anyway. Even if multiple mice are needed in a single feed.

    Perhaps science can develop a miniature rat, larger than mice but smaller than common rats. Adult mini rats for ants. :D
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2018
  16. SpottedPythons

    SpottedPythons Well-Known Member

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    Bone density is enough in rats - you get more bone in a large, developing juvenile rat than a smaller adult mouse. I find the claim of 90 gram mice incredible - the largest "jumbo" mice I've seen were about 30-40 grams. My spotteds are feeding on 100gram rats because they don't get enough sustenance on any mouse size, no matter how big. Besides, snakes' jaws benefit from large prey items. It's common knowledge that one large prey item is better than two small ones.
     
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  17. Flaviemys purvisi

    Flaviemys purvisi Very Well-Known Member

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    The Quackenbush super mice I have get bigger than reg mice... over 70g.
     
  18. Scutellatus

    Scutellatus Well-Known Member

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    The X-Large from my supplier are 26g to 30g.
     
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  19. Flaviemys purvisi

    Flaviemys purvisi Very Well-Known Member

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    Mine are twice that size.
     
  20. Scutellatus

    Scutellatus Well-Known Member

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    @Yellowtail How big/heavy do your adult super mice get.
     

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