Homemade Vegie Mixes

Discussion in 'DIY Zone' started by Bomber, Jan 13, 2012.

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  1. Bluetongue1

    Bluetongue1 Guest

    There is a lot positive I would like to say but I suspect this will be a long post without that. Suffice to say then that if my missus provided the fruit to me that you provide your EWD I would be a happy man.

    I am going to throw a spanner into the works...

    Firstly, I believe far too much is made of the P content of bananas. The concern is that this binds calcium. The reality is that P is an essential mineral in the building of bone. As a percentage of the diet it does not interfere with uptake and utilisation of sufficient calcium. Kanyana Wildlife Rehabilitation Centre, in the Perth Hills, has developed and been using a diet for Shinglebacks being rehabilitated or kept long term for at least 10 years now. That diet is as follows:
    12% Meatballs with Wombaroo Reptile Supplement
    22% Chopped apple
    22% Green leafy vegetables
    22% Banana
    22% Tomato
    My initial reaction was that this cannot be right. That changed to it must be just for putting on condition. Upon enquiring, it is also used for long term residents that are unable to be released. Non e of the animals, young or adults, on this particular diet have shown any signs of developing MBD.

    Clearly there are aspects of this that fly in the face of what we would consider appropriate on the basis of analysis of nutrients and potential interactions.

    I believe it is also important to consider the size of firm vegetables and leaf vegetables offered. These should NOT be grated. They should be coarsely chopped so that the lizard needs to chew them before swallowing. The appropriate size to chop them into is the distance between the eyes. Even leaves need to be chopped. Whole leaves that have been swallowed have been known to require veterinary intervention on rare occasions. Remember that in nature the leaves would be torn off in pieces before being swallowed. Chewing of firm food is important for dental health in order to avoid periodontal disease.

    The addition of dandelion flowers is a plus because even they contain a good degree of calcium plus nectar which certain lizards enjoy. Perhaps what should have been said is that the leaves of dandelions contain more calcium per volume than milk has. So the addition of chopped dandelion leaves will be highly beneficial to growing lizards.

    I am not sure why peas should not be regular dietary item. They are certain the best way I know of to get reluctant bluetongues to eat. I would also challenge the traditionally held view of mealworms being bad. The P to Ca ratio basically is interpreted as an indication that animals fed a staple diet of mealworms will develop MBD. If you look at the information available overseas, you soon discover that huge numbers of lizards are raised almost exclusively on mealworms with no apparent drawbacks. Finding middle ground, the regular inclusion of these insect larvae in the diets lizards are a benefit. If you want to look at P to Ca ratios, crickets don't cut it. Yet how many people feed their geckoes exclusively on crickets?

    Bottom line... there is still a lot of sorting out to be done. We need to determine the there difference between what looks theoretically unsound versus what is actually unsound in practice.

    Blue
     
  2. Bel03

    Bel03 Very Well-Known Member

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    Feathergrass, thanks for the size comparrison, muppet sounds like he is of similar size as your girl, so that makes me feel better! I was amazed at the growth in the last fortnight, as that is when he had the big spurt.....i wondered if he was just on the fat side! ;) As for shedding, he has just started shedding for the second time with me, i think that like snakes, the faster they grow, the more often they shed. I get what you are saying about it seeming to be a constant thing though, cause basically it is! It is amazing how differently they shed to snakes!
     
  3. feathergrass

    feathergrass Active Member

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    Bel i totally agree there, I tried you know a tablespoon of salad in the morning 15 to 20 crick and another tablesppon of salad and fast found that wasnt cutting it we are up to 1/2 to 3/4 a cup of salad a serve and 20 to 30 cricks a day and that atleast for now seems to be satisfying the bottomless pit i all my dragon growth rate as i have calculated is something like lengthwise 1cm to 1.5cm per week and sometimes i swear i see her growing as i watch ( but decided it was just her tummy getting fat when hunting her crickets down lol)

    Bluetongue1
    Before i got my dragon i got books books and more books and read all i could find online and decided theres alot of conflicting information out there which to new people can be confusing so the way i figured it was if you read all you can get your eyes on and try if somethings not working try something else and as long as your dragon stays healthy grows and doesnt get sick then you have to be onto the right track, and if by chance before you find the right path for you and your dragon and you end up with a vet trip then keep note in your books what you tried and what failed and what worked that way you can make your own record of whats worked for you and let others know as long as people keep in mind what works for the a nd their dragons maynot indeed worl for someone elses for example: Silkworms dragons love them...mine hates them
    capsicum mine isnt too sure on them but hates banana and love watermelon

    sometime i think you have to take in account for what your dragon likes and what he doesnt and find a healthy balance both master and slave can live with :)

    cheers
    Karla
     
  4. Bluetongue1

    Bluetongue1 Guest

    My apologies. I was not meaning to cast aspersions on all that has been worked out, has been tried and effective and therefore accepted. I was trying to get across there is still room for negotiation when you take the whole diet on balance. However that does not mean that you should throw out the baby with the bath water and start from scratch. For example, if adding a few mealworms to the vegie dish, do choose the light coloured ones that have not long shed as they haven't laid down a full, hard layer of chitin yet.


    Feathergrass,
    I reckon too many care sheets provide a list what can be eaten, often with little or no indications of how much of eah or any explanation why. Others go the other way and nominate exactly what, how much and how often. It doesn't take many of those to put the head into a spin.

    I can only agree that different animals of the same species have their individual likes and dislikes. I am sure no two mature and healthy bearded dragons out in the bush grew up on identical diets. I think dietary items should be grouped according to the recommended percentages of each. I think they should also be earmarked for important vitamins or minerals. At the same time there should be a list of those not suitable to use. That way you can vary what is offered according to likes and what is in season, yet you are still getting the overall balance. So as part of the soft fruit, in place of banana you can supply watermelon, as you do, or rock melon or honeydew melon etc

    Blue
     
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