Id please

[GeckPhotographer]

Just a guess based on where it was found..marble gecko.

Well you are in fact the first person in this entire thread to suggest a species the NSW Atlas of Wildlife lists as occurring in the broad area around Finley NSW. However the toe pads on this gecko are far far too small for it to be this species.

 

[BrownHash]

I think its a Rhync. Its natural distribution isn't far enough away to rule out a slight range extension or an individual that has hitch-hiked.

 

[GeckPhotographer]

I think its a Rhync. Its natural distribution isn't far enough away to rule out a slight range extension or an individual that has hitch-hiked.

Exactly my thinking. Thank you for addition to the discussion.

 

[Wally]

Ok here are the relatively possible options.

Bynoes Gecko- Almost always and especially in that part of the range maintains some form of banding, white splodges would not be oval shaped but more roughly edged, does not have smooth skin and general body shape is different.
Tessellated Gecko- Rather similar, tail is usually shorter and thicker, also has small raised scales on the end of tail (which would be past what is visible in this picture), pattern is usually rather bland made of several tones with little to none localized stand out patterning (such as large oval white blotches). It can however have smaller white flecks over parts of its body. Pattern is highly variable in this species, but you can go and look up some pictures this patterning is different.
Lucasium byrnei- The only gecko in this area I am still considering. Casually patterning is similar to a Tessellated but can sometimes have larger splodges or areas of more prominent patterning. The head of this species is relatively rounder than other species listed here.
Rhyncoedura ornata- Range is well away from where this was found. However charecteristic patterning of this species is a series of large white blotches, with other various patterning over body. Head is fairly thin with a sharp beak like snout. Tail shape is very similar to pictured.

Thanks.

 

[Bluetongue1]

Braids,

Did you look at the ventral surface? If so, was it pure white or white with blotches of grey?

Blue



I certainly would not rule out Rhynchodeura as a contender. It was in fact the first possibility that I selected. Only after re-considering the patterning and what I could see of the toe pads, plus distribution, did I opt for Diplodactylus tessellatus. The reality, in my opinion, is it could be either of the two species mentioned – flip of a coin! Even a photo showing all of the tail would allow me to make a firm call. Long tail = R. ornatus; shorttail = D. tessellatus.

I do not feel that Lucasium byrnei is not a contender as it lacks the rough banding normally apparent in that species. The distribution of D. tessellatus covers the area in question while L. byrnie is found further afield that R. ornatus according to my references.

Blue

 

[braids]

Sorry my mate found it while he was working down there. He said there were two. And they were soft as. I'll ask him if he remembers an more info.

 

[Bluetongue1]

Thanks,

Blue

 

[-Peter]

I thought you were referring to Rhynchoedura. The Lucasium sp proposed has a dorsal stripe.

Which genus are you getting beaked gecko from, Rhyncoedura or Lucasium? Neither appear to be similar. Why do you discount Heternotia?

 

[GeckPhotographer]

Peter I am saying I think it is a Rhyncoedure ornata, which is a beaked gecko. I was also holding consideration a species of Lucasium but Blue has discounted that. Lucasium byrnei does not in many cases have a dorsal stripe.
I have put in an above post some of the reasons I rule out Heteronotia but the first clue was that it looks absolutely nothing at all like this in the slightest.

Blue, the NSW Atlas of Wildlife shows Lucasium byrnei as occuring much much closer than Rhyncoedura ornata, but this may be incorrect. I do not feel I need to flip a coin either as I do not think the patterning on that gecko is at all consistent with Tessellateds and I think distribution aside if it looks exactly like a Rhyncoedura and not much like a Tessellated, go with a Rhyncoedura.

 

[Bluetongue1]

Geckophotographer,
I give your argument every credence. It has the lateral series of white or cream spots typical of Rhychs and the typically shorter, sharply rounded snout. (Oh for a side shot to see if it overlaps?) Given that the animals both felt soft and Tesellated Geckoes have that file like feel to the tail, I am given to wonder.

According to the distribution information I have available, D. tessellatus extends into Victoria about mid-way along the NSW border. In the absence of further information I will stick with it could be either. Haven’t quite said I agree with you but am not far off it. LOL.

Peter,
I can appreciate why you would be thinking Bynoe’s gecko. They are very variable and sometimes you can a pattern of spots rather than short bands or strips. The area is in fact outside the know distribution. The snout of the Bynoe’s tends to be longer and sharper, the eyes protrude less and the digits are all long and thin. While the poor quality of the photo makes it difficult to assess individual attributes, I believe that if you take the above “en mass” you can discount Bynoe’s as a potential contender. Why I hate do IDs with crap photos!

Blue

 

[njb432]

Maybe some sort of marbled gecko?

 

[richoman_3]

Maybe some sort of marbled gecko?

no its not christinus or oedura

 

[Beard]

Maybe its a plot by the Tajikistanian Government. It could have been planted in the hope that someone would find it, upload photo's on the internet thus creating an argument as to its species therefore bringing down the democracy of Australia.


Just a thought!

 

[GeckPhotographer]

If the safety of democracy rested on arguments over the internet, well APS would probably come out like a shiny ball of non-argument compared to some areas.

 

[-Peter]

My plumping for Bynoe's is based only on the assumption that any ID attempt is fraut and speculative. The information given with the photo is subjective so should be discounted. Thus it is as valid as any other guess. I have collected specimen within 100k of Finlay. They are not striped or banded like the Qld form but have erratic spotting. That there are only a couple larger splotches and the reasons you stated I agree that ir isn't a Bynoe's
Based on the photo alone I cannot make an ID but I would venture that the specimen is not in prime condition. This coupled with the focus and no corroboration makes it impossible. As to this the use of common names, Rhyncoedura is known as beaded gecko and the Laucasium as beaked. Thus my initial question to GP.

 

[GeckPhotographer]

Peter the Greek root for nose is Rhyncos, thus the name Rhyncoedura is referring to the animals nose which is shaped similarly to a beak and the most commonly accepted common name for Rhyncoedura ornata is the Beaked Gecko, not Beaded.

Lucasium damaeum is by some references called the Beaded Gecko.

If you wouldn't overly mind I would much like to see photos of those Bynoes specimens you collected from near this locality.

 

[jordo]

Nice, a bit of debate
For my opinion...
It's definitely not a Heteronotia. Although I'm with GeckoPhotographer, I'd love to see a photo of one like this

It does have the typical pattern of a Rynchoedura, however the snout doesn't have the beak like look of a termite specialist (maybe it's just the angle and quality of the photo).

Another option that I don't think has been suggested yet is Lucasium byrnei. I've only seen one specimen but from what I know they're highly variable in pattern and can have large white blotches, the distribution also fits a bit better than a Ryncho.

 

[GeckPhotographer]

Another option that I don't think has been suggested yet is Lucasium byrnei. I've only seen one specimen but from what I know they're highly variable in pattern and can have large white blotches, the distribution also fits a bit better than a Ryncho.

My mentioning of byrnei was that it was the one species other than Rhyncoedura I was still considering, Blue listed some reasons against it being this gecko, and I have accepted his reasoning and thus in my opinion the only option is Rhyncoedura.

Personally I believe the angle of the photo contributes significantly to the look of it being beaked as I find this more appreciable from a side on view, but I agree that the snout seen in this gecko is not convincing.

Peter has said the image does not provide many details but I am inclined to disagree. I believe it shows enough detail to strongly suggest against all the important species as strong contenders for this gecko, I.e. Heteronotia, Lucasium, Diplodactylus. In this way I apply Occam's Razor, that Rhyncoedura is the best and simplest fit to what we have been provided. If new evidence came to light I would happily re-evaluate my position.

 

[Bluetongue1]

Hi Peter,
I understand the problem now. You have simply remembered them the wrong way around. Lucasium damaeum is commonly known as the Beaded Gecko. Rhynchoedura ornata is called the Beaked Gecko because it rostral scale juts out forward of the lower lip, looking a bit like the upper beak of a baby bird.

I agree that ID’s can be fraught with difficulty and crap photos certainly do not help. Any ID that lacks a clear view of needed diagnostic features is automatically problematic. The only reason I put down one species was that my second alternative had been offered already. I did, however, point out the shortcomings and therefore described it as “my best guess”.

Rhynchoedura ornata and Diplodactylus tessellatus are both highly variable in colour and patterning across the full breadth of their range. Rather like Heteronotia binoei in that respect. So any judgment made has to take that into account. The best you can do is eliminate possible contenders and hope you only have one left standing. This time around, for me at least, there are two and I can see arguments for both. So that is where it stops.

Cheers,
Blue

A couple of posts late - they were not there when I started lol.

 

[jordo]

Sorry GP, I missed those few posts in the middle! Yeah it's a tough one, I'm not convinced either way.