Illegal Aussie Herps in Saudi Arabia

[n3xia]

Hi everyone,
I recently wrote to Wildlife Trade Compliance to alert them about this guy I found on Instagram. I actually found him because he liked a photo I'd uploaded of my snake. They reckon they can't do anything about it because the animals might be from populations that were established overseas before Australia got all strict on importing/exporting animals, or that he might have obtained them legally. I highly doubt that, since he keeps mentioning amounts in the hundreds and thousands, and the guy has openly admitted that "all my animals is illegal" (it appears this comment has been removed since I last looked at this page).


Here's the species I managed to spot:
Flatback turtle - Natator depressus
Green Tree Frog (referred to as 'dumpy tree frog') - Litoria caerulea
Carpet python - possibly Morelia spilota cheynei?
Cockatiel - Nymphicus hallandicus
Another photo of the cockatiel

I'm also concerned about the welfare of the animals as he seems to do a lot of live feeding, and I noticed visible 'tenting' (dehydration) in a non-Australian snake. Thoughts?

 

[PythonLegs]

I think saudi authorities are about as concerned about aussie herps as australian authorities.

 

[longqi]

Middle East is a huge clearing house for Asian and African animals
Get messages every week begging us to send them reptiles etc

 

[treeofgreen]

I think saudi authorities are about as concerned about aussie herps as australian authorities.

+1

That coupled with the fact that Saudi is one of those countries where bribes are a daily occurance for the authorities. I think nothing at all will be done and this thread right here will be the most anyone would have discussed it

Australia can't actually do anything about it at all anyway, its up the Saudis and i think they are too busy cutting the hands off thieves, decapitating crims and bashing women who kiss their partners :S

 

[Senator358]

Wow...someone has too much free time.

 

[Umbral]

If we worried about what other countries were doing with animals we would all have depression. I'm not saying that it's not sad but realistically there is nothing we can do once they are over there. The best we can do is push for tighter security exiting Australia.

 

[Pythoninfinite]

All of those species are bred in their thousands in dozens of countries worldwide. I doubt whether anyone smuggles normal Carpet Pythons of any phase, Green Tree frogs (called White's Tree Frogs in the US & elsewhere) and certainly not Cockatiels - they're as common as budgies overseas and have been in international aviculture almost since Australia was settled.

Jamie

 

[andynic07]

This is not something that I would chase up but in fairness to the OP I will bring up the point about Aussie cows in the Middle East and how much of a stink that has been made about them being treated cruelly. If the reptiles are in fact being treated badly then maybe someone should be doing something about it.

 

[Pythoninfinite]

This is not something that I would chase up but in fairness to the OP I will bring up the point about Aussie cows in the Middle East and how much of a stink that has been made about them being treated cruelly. If the reptiles are in fact being treated badly then maybe someone should be doing something about it.

Like the cattle problem, there is absolutely nothing we can do about it. Australia is not exporting reptiles to the middle east, so we have no say in how they are treated. The only way to prevent this barbaric behaviour towards OUR cattle, goats & sheep is to stop sending them to countries where this sort of brutality is cultural. No amount of assurances will convince me that cultural change has taken place. They've been treating these animals in this manner for centuries because they don't believe they are sentient beings.

I think we could benefit from focussing on the way many Australians keep and kill their rodents for snake food. I've seen unbelievable insensitivity and brutality directed towards rats in many Australian backyards.

Jamie

 

[andynic07]

Like the cattle problem, there is absolutely nothing we can do about it. Australia is not exporting reptiles to the middle east, so we have no say in how they are treated. The only way to prevent this barbaric behaviour towards OUR cattle, goats & sheep is to stop sending them to countries where this sort of brutality is cultural. No amount of assurances will convince me that cultural change has taken place. They've been treating these animals in this manner for centuries because they don't believe they are sentient beings.

I think we could benefit from focussing on the way many Australians keep and kill their rodents for snake food. I've seen unbelievable insensitivity and brutality directed towards rats in many Australian backyards.

Jamie

Yes there are many wrong in our own country including the way some pets are kept and dog fighting to name a couple but animal rights is a global problem and sometimes people will have more of an interest in specific problems that occur overseas and they are no more or less important than the ones in our own backyard to an animal lover. For me I like to concentrate on things that I can make a difference with and usually that is things within my country.

 

[Pythoninfinite]

It's absolutely necessary to distinguish between animal "rights" and animal "welfare" in any discussion about these matters. They are very different, "welfare" should be a concern for all of us. Animal "rights" people very often masquerade as "welfare" people to push an idealogical barrow, and one which contains heaps of stuff reptile keepers won't like.

Jamie

 

[andynic07]

Yes they are sometimes confused and I have wrongly used the term rights instead of wellbeing.

 

[n3xia]

its up the Saudis and i think they are too busy cutting the hands off thieves, decapitating crims and bashing women who kiss their partners :S

That's a pretty big and probably unfair generalisation. I'm aware that stuff goes on there, but I don't think an average Saudi would appreciate you describing them as such.

Wow...someone has too much free time.

It's called caring about animal welfare - which any responsible pet owner would do.

All of those species are bred in their thousands in dozens of countries worldwide.

There's no point giving him the benefit of the doubt when he's already admitted all of his animals are illegal.

The best we can do is push for tighter security exiting Australia.

...which of course is what an investigation into this kind of activity could lead to.

They've been treating these animals in this manner for centuries because they don't believe they are sentient beings.

My colleague who lived in the Middle East for years said he noticed a cultural difference in the way animals are treated and regarded. This same man had uploaded a photo of a dead, semi-decomposed cat he found on the street, for example. Most Australians would just be grossed out by or feel sorry for the cat and keep walking.

I think we could benefit from focussing on the way many Australians keep and kill their rodents for snake food. I've seen unbelievable insensitivity and brutality directed towards rats in many Australian backyards.

If I saw similar things happening in Australia, I'd happily report it also. Just because I've taken an interest in the Saudi guy doesn't mean I can't also pay attention to what's happening here.

 

[Rlpreston]

While I applaud your motives I would have to agree with what others have said.

Even if he had commented that they are 'illegal', there is no proof of that and therefore no way for the authorities to act on it.


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[n3xia]

Righto... I'm not sure why someone would openly state that all their animals are illegal if that wasn't the case though.

 

[champagne]

Righto... I'm not sure why someone would openly state that all their animals are illegal if that wasn't the case though.

probably the same reason he was saying they cost him thousands..... just trying to big note himself

 

[Senator358]

It's called caring about animal welfare - which any responsible pet owner would do.

A responsible pet owner looks after their pets. Someone with too much free time cares what a single person is doing with their pets 10,000km away.

If you want to start a crusade on saving animals then maybe start at your local RSPCA or wildlife shelter. They are always looking for volunteers.

 

[Rlpreston]

Righto... I'm not sure why someone would openly state that all their animals are illegal if that wasn't the case though.

I didn't say whether I thought it was true or not, I'm only saying that there is no proof. This is a fact regardless of whether he was telling the truth or not.

 

[-Peter]

Apart from the turtle all the other animals are easily obtainable through normal pet channels overseas. Quoting of thousands of dollars means what, bought any top line snakes here in Aus?

 

[Bluetongue1]

I am just gobsmacked by this thread. The OP asked for some advice and before you know it people are passing judgement and telling her what she should and should not be concerned about. I really must be a relic if that is considered appropriate.

My wife and I sponsor a child in Ethiopia. This is something our children wanted to do and even though they are now both adults, we have maintained our sponsorship and are onto our second child. Does this mean I should be flamed because I have not directed this effort to our own nation?

As Peter stated, all bar the turtle can be legally acquired. The Flatback is categorised as “Data Deficient” by the IUCN and “Vulnerable” by our Commonwealth Government. More importantly, it is listed under CITES as Appendix I. So unless acquired with an appropriate licence for scientific or a few other exempt non-commercial reasons, which definitely excludes pets (= commercial), there is no way he should have one in his possession. If you find out which authority is responsible for enforcing CITES legislation then you may have a slim chance of them taking action. It is very much your decision and if you choose to pursue it I wish you every success.

Good on you for caring.

Blue