Insulation

Discussion in 'Herp Help' started by Derekw, Jun 27, 2019.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Derekw

    Derekw Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2019
    Messages:
    141
    Likes Received:
    42
    Gender:
    Male
    Hello everyone,

    Ive found that temps in my enclosure are dropping off alot through the night unless we run the ducted heating all night. I have not even had my animal a week yet but i am concerned because it get very cold over night where i live in NSW.
    We have had towels and blankets over the enclosure but temps still drop and alarm sounds unless we leave the house heating on. Im thinking i need to insulate three sides with something. Is polystyrene a good idea?
     
  2. Herptology

    Herptology Donator Donator

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2019
    Messages:
    922
    Likes Received:
    750
    Gender:
    Male
    What are the temps dropping to? From my experience with the thermostat in question, the alarm goes off at 21~ degrees which would be fine if it stays at that, but I’m assuming it’s getting lower than thar
     
  3. Derekw

    Derekw Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2019
    Messages:
    141
    Likes Received:
    42
    Gender:
    Male
    Yes it is getting lower that 21deg. Im working on buying a new thermostat and a different heat matt but im worried for the animal at the moment. It drops to 19deg on average then wont get up over 26 at night unless i run the house heating then it will stay at about 30-31deg
     
  4. Herptology

    Herptology Donator Donator

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2019
    Messages:
    922
    Likes Received:
    750
    Gender:
    Male
    Do you have a rough age of the snake? If it’s over a year old 19° at night is 100% fine

    Full time heating should really only be supplied to under a year old then they can start getting day on, night off heating
    Or you can get a thermostat which offers different heating depending on the time such as night eye habistat
     
    Derekw likes this.
  5. Derekw

    Derekw Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2019
    Messages:
    141
    Likes Received:
    42
    Gender:
    Male
    "Omen" is a 5yr old jungle python.
    Oh ok i was very worried as his previous ower ran temps of 34-35 during the day and 25 at night. Where i live gets in the high 40s in summer and low teens to freezing during winter so i have really been stressed about it. I have purchased books but they have not yet arrived.
     
  6. Southernserpent

    Southernserpent Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2018
    Messages:
    132
    Likes Received:
    85
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    SA
    My adults carpet pythons get down to single digets sometimes at night but get basking temps of low 30s during the day. I'm not recommending this but it's surprising what temps they tolerate. I also do not feed at all during this time
     
    Derekw likes this.
  7. nuttylizardguy

    nuttylizardguy Suspended Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2018
    Messages:
    630
    Likes Received:
    213
    Gender:
    Male
    How big is he curled up ?

    You might find a low wattage heat pad sandwiched between two layers of floor tiles connected to a simple ebay switching thermostat , set the the thermostat to 24 degC if that's what the snake's used to at night and simply leave the heatpad running 24/7.

    I've used this type of thermostat to control my heatpads for years .
    https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/White-D...810098&hash=item5d4e81f404:g:BikAAOSwuR5XPqpX
    Very reliable and not had a failure yet.
     
    Herptology and Derekw like this.
  8. Herptology

    Herptology Donator Donator

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2019
    Messages:
    922
    Likes Received:
    750
    Gender:
    Male
    I’ve been testing one of these on my heat pad, but it seems so far off compared to other thermometers, at this point I don’t know what’s real heat gun says it’s one of the standalone thermometer

    I’ve bundled them all up with cable tie so they sit next to eachother

    Have you had an issue?
     
  9. Barry

    Barry Not so new Member

    Joined:
    May 5, 2018
    Messages:
    67
    Likes Received:
    39
    Gender:
    Male
    A1DBACC0-D629-4E20-B847-AEFAEA973B04.jpeg I found my rack system had a temp problem on bottom shelf when I put wheels under it . I tried air cell inso & works a treat . Got it against the wall behind enclosures & underneath
     
    Derekw likes this.
  10. dragonlover1

    dragonlover1 Donator Donator

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2009
    Messages:
    2,517
    Likes Received:
    1,501
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Sydney
    I'm in Sydney, none of our pythons get night heat, they survive on whatever the ambient temperature is inside my house. It was down to 9C the other morning.
    Only my frillies get night heat in winter because they are tropical
     
    Derekw likes this.
  11. nuttylizardguy

    nuttylizardguy Suspended Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2018
    Messages:
    630
    Likes Received:
    213
    Gender:
    Male
    Herptology - Bet you never heard of emissivities and just assumed the gun will give the right temperature irrespective of the material who's surface temperature you want measure. My money is on it might be the emissivity setting on the heatgun needs adjustment.
    There are tables of property emissivities available on line and it's also possible to correct temperatures for incorrect emissivities.

    I have digital thermometers taped right next to the temperature probe for my elcheapo switching thermostat and it always reads within 1 degC of the temperature shown by the thermostat.
     
  12. Derekw

    Derekw Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2019
    Messages:
    141
    Likes Received:
    42
    Gender:
    Male
    We tried heavy blankets last night and no alarms. Stayed at about 21deg. Im no certain that insulation is the issue.
    He must be doing ok because he is out cruising around the enclosure at night and actually came out with ease last night.
    We will continue to monitor things.

    Thank you everyone for the comments.
     
  13. Pauls_Pythons

    Pauls_Pythons Donator Donator Power Seller

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2012
    Messages:
    2,101
    Likes Received:
    2,515
    Location:
    Melbourne
    Common infrared thermometers are preset with an emmisivity of 0.95. This is because most organic objects fit into a range very close to this.
    Most commercial glasses have an emmisivity of around 0.95 and most timbers are around 0.9.

    In industrial settings, when measuring high temperature, emmisivity can have a minor impact at the temperature readings achieved. When measuring a body of molten glass in excess of 1200 degrees the ideal emmisivity setting is 0.95. If I change the setting to 1 i would see a difference of around 3 degrees. Shop bought preset thermometers are absolutely 100% fine for the application of measuring enclosure temps and are probably more accurate than the digital thermometers you are using.
     
    Derekw likes this.
  14. Wokka

    Wokka Well-Known Member APS Veteran

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2015
    Messages:
    335
    Likes Received:
    139
    Location:
    Newcastle
    Glass is a very poor insulator. Heating your tank is like putting a heater in the back yard and wondering why there is little response. Use a wooden cage next time which will give some insulation. A 6 yo jungle should have enough thermal mass to get through a cold night provided it can warm up through the day. If you use a heated tile (by mat or cord) the snake can be in contact with the tile and no heat is lost, but keep the tile at below say 35c to avoid burning the animal .This will require 15-20 watts depending upon ambient temperature.
     
  15. Yellowtail

    Yellowtail Very Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2017
    Messages:
    1,007
    Likes Received:
    2,283
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Gold Coast, Qld
    Wokka is right, it is very difficult to maintain temperatures in a glass enclosure unless it is in a temperature controlled room and glass fronted wooden enclosures are much better. I did experiment with high density polystyrene foam enclosures with double glazed glass fronts having had some experience constructing incubators this way and looking to save on power bills. Problem then is there is almost no heat loss and you end up with a constant temperature across the enclosure with no gradient, ok with a single low wattage heat source in a very large enclosure.
     
  16. Derekw

    Derekw Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2019
    Messages:
    141
    Likes Received:
    42
    Gender:
    Male
    Thank you for the comments everyone. I will be making some changes with the enclosure and heating. I think the tile idea will work very well. I imagine he wont be able to rest ontop of the tile so will reasearch some better substrate rather than the rocks he has in there atm and best place to place the probe , problably right on top of the tile.

    Again thank you everyone for the help:)
     
  17. dragonlover1

    dragonlover1 Donator Donator

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2009
    Messages:
    2,517
    Likes Received:
    1,501
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Sydney
    I am currently building a couple of 3x2x2 melamine enclosures with 15W heat cable under a stepping stone type rock for 2 of my Ants. I reckon the heat from the day will be enough for the night
     
    Derekw likes this.
  18. Derekw

    Derekw Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2019
    Messages:
    141
    Likes Received:
    42
    Gender:
    Male
    Thats for the info
     
  19. nuttylizardguy

    nuttylizardguy Suspended Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2018
    Messages:
    630
    Likes Received:
    213
    Gender:
    Male
    Yes and no.

    Emissivity error :
    Yes if the emissivity of the surface is "close" to the preset of 0.95 , if the surface has a significantly different emissivity the result will be an inaccurate temperature reading
    table of emissivities
    http://www.infrared-thermography.com/material-1.htm
    but the error due to emissivity being incorrect for the material can be as much as 8 degC for a 20% error in emissivity.

    Compensation of temperature for incorrect emissivity setting is shown here :
    https://www.apogeeinstruments.com/content/SI-emissivitycorrection.pdf

    And off cause there is the common mistake of accidentally taking the temperature of the reflection of the heat source. Look up specular error.
     
  20. Pauls_Pythons

    Pauls_Pythons Donator Donator Power Seller

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2012
    Messages:
    2,101
    Likes Received:
    2,515
    Location:
    Melbourne
    Get more variation/inaccuracy from being too far away from the target than due to a slightly incorrect emmisivity setting. (That is factory pre set)
    Simple enough to test against an object at room temperature to gauge the accuracy.
     
    Derekw likes this.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page