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Is this scale rot or ?

Discussion in 'Herp Help' started by Snapped, Jun 29, 2020.

  1. Snapped

    Snapped Subscriber Subscriber

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    Have noticed these marks on my Albino Python, he shed overnight, so I'd thought I'd take pics this arvo, however as you can see, he still has some left, but thought I'd hold off on soaking him till I found out what this was, in case it is scale rot. No sign of mites in water bowl, or seen him soaking in it.

    He is a bit more sluggish than usual, put that down to the natural drop in temps over Winter, though he's always fed year round.
    On a side note, He hasn't eaten (or been remotely interested in food) since end January/early Feb. Offered every f/night, tried smaller sized rats, brained them, bumped temps up, nothing. Has been in hunting mode several times and seemed really keen, but when offered rat, has not eaten them.

    Background - Albino Darwin, 4yo (had since hatchy) had in new enclosure for a month. In same spot as previous one, so nothing has changed there.
    New set up has 100w IR globe (simply because the 75w floodlight globe i bought from bunnings wasn't hot enough) on a thermostat, cage around globe, no sharp pieces anywhere, and was F10'd thoroughly by me when I bought it a few weeks back.
    Temps sit at around 32 on the branch right under the globe, has a large water tub for soaking (it's quite dry in SA, especially in the summer) hide with tile on top, different branches to get near or further from heat.
    Substrate is newspaper.

    Okay, pics.


    Noodle 1.jpg Noodle 2.jpg noodle 3.jpg noodle 4.jpg noodle 5 set up.jpg Noodle 1.jpg Noodle 1.jpg Noodle 2.jpg noodle 3.jpg noodle 4.jpg noodle 5 set up.jpg
     
  2. Ajar5

    Ajar5 New Member

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    What are you using to measure the temps? Is the bamboo lacquered? Scale rot is caused from cold damp conditions..
     
  3. CF Constrictor

    CF Constrictor Active Member

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    Hi Snapped
    Do you use under tank heating as well , for example a heat mat or heat cord ? Seems like a long time to be refusing food, are you sure the temps you are reading are accurate ?
     
  4. Snapped

    Snapped Subscriber Subscriber

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    Temps are measured by a temp gun in different spots, so it's accurate. I was wondering about scale rot because his previous enclosure had a heat tile (heat cord under the heat tile) and he would often pee when he was laying on it....even though I gave him a wipe over when he had, or usually a quick soak and dry him off (he would stink) and then clean/dry the tile. Bamboo isn't lacquered, seems smooth though (2nd hand enclosure).
    Reason I questioned scale rot was because he's been in the new enclosure a month, and he has peed in his hide, which doesn't drain as it has a bottom part (like an upside down tub with a lid on)
    --- Automatic Post Merged, Jun 29, 2020, Original Post Date: Jun 29, 2020 ---
    He was on a heat tile as his only heat for probably 18 months without a problem, and that always maintained the same temp, I measured it with my temp gun and it was on a thermostat. He's only been in the new enclosure for almost a month, temps are spot on. Not sure why he hasn't eaten, I had bumped up the temps, tried different rats, braining etc, but nope.
    If it was over winter I wouldn't worry about the not eating, but during the hotter weather it seemed odd, and we rarely use an air con in the room he's in unless it's unbearably hot.
    I also use a thermometer gauge in his enclosure, which confirmed temps around 30 near the hot spot.

    But the marks on his scales are worrying me as well. Might have to book a vets visit and see what they say, get a full check over. Had a quick look in his mouth today, no bubbling or mucous, no noisy breathing.
     
  5. Ajar5

    Ajar5 New Member

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    Is the enclosure well ventilated?
    --- Automatic Post Merged, Jun 29, 2020, Original Post Date: Jun 29, 2020 ---
    Is it not winter where you are? Do you regularly clean the hide? Is the hide the coldest place? If so it may be forced to stay in there if it's temps are too warm in the rest of enclosure? Good ventilation will provide a good variation in temps..
     
  6. CF Constrictor

    CF Constrictor Active Member

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    How long have these makes been there ? 1 of my carpets belly goes a pink salmon colour when he is in pre shed.
     
  7. Snapped

    Snapped Subscriber Subscriber

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    Sorry, yes it is Winter,I was meaning it was unusual for him to have not eaten since Feb (in the hottest part of summer, I'm in South Australia) His hide is cleaned weekly, along with the rest of the enclosure and substrate changed, if he pees/poops in between cleans, it's cleaned up that day.
    Ventilation is spot on in the new enclosure, his previous enclosure was fine.
    New enclosure has the hide in the coolest spot, but he does thermoregulate throughout the day, moving between hide/hot spot and in between.

    As I said before (does anyone ever read the first post? hahaha, all good though) he had shed the night before I took the pics, so yes, a bit of pink...but I'm talking about the dark marks on the sides of his belly (best seen in 2nd last pic)

    Has anyone got ANY ideas on what those marks might/might not be?

    I'll take him to the vets this week for a full check up, because the marks and the non eating has got me stumped as well.
    --- Automatic Post Merged, Jun 30, 2020 ---
    ETA I've just this morning added a hide to the warmer end and put a smaller water bowl in the middle of the two hides, he's currently on the branch in the hot spot.
     
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  8. Susannah

    Susannah New Member

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    If he's been refusing food, it could be because he was preparing to shed. My little guy does this - always refuses food (up to 8 weeks) then happy to start back eating again after his shed. Give him a few more days then maybe offer again.

    I've only seen the pink-crackle looking tummy pre-shed. And never on the top, but then I've got a Stimmy, so possibly just a colouring thing because yours is an albino you're going to see the crackling more with the pale colour. It does look unusual given he's just shed.

    It looks like you have a decent set up with lots of room for him to get to the right temperature etc, so I'm guessing not rot, rather it's been cold and he's been getting closer to, and staying in the heat longer so that his scales are a bit dry? What's your humidity like?
     
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  9. Snapped

    Snapped Subscriber Subscriber

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    Hi Susannah, He's been refusing to eat since early Feb...this guy is normally a glutton when it comes to food, he'll eat all through Winter normally as well, and he has only shed the once in that time, and he's still got 1/3 of it to come off, plenty of branches and a rough type rock in there to rub along as well.

    Humidity is fine, plenty of ventilation in the enclosure. No idea what the marks are, apparently no one on this forum does either, even though a couple of long time knowledgeable members have read the thread, so it's off the to vet on the weekend.

    I'll update the thread after I've seen the vet, hopefully he can shed (pardon the pun haha) some light on the problem(s).
     
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  10. Ajar5

    Ajar5 New Member

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    Have you only recently noticed the marks? If so.. considering everything you've said and the pics I'd say it's possible they're burns from the heat light. The fact that it's a new enclosure, new heat source(from above)via a 100watt globe with a branch which enables it to easily wrap the light cage leads me to suspect this. Can you put your hand on the side of the light cage without being burnt? The fact it hasn't eaten in a while may not even be linked to the marks?
     
  11. Susannah

    Susannah New Member

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    Do you mean he didn't shed in one piece? As in the shed isn't complete?
     
  12. CF Constrictor

    CF Constrictor Active Member

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    If he has an incomplete shed then perhaps you should consider bathing him in warm water to help remove old skin .
     
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  13. Susannah

    Susannah New Member

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    yeah, that usually does it! My little guy really enjoys a swim in warm water (I think!). I tend to use a clean face washer cloth and gently run it over him until it all peels off.

    The incomplete shed will cause the weird looking scales, reluctance to eat and general grumpy moods. I found that it's a lack of humidity or it being too cold for them to bathe enough when they don't shed completely. It's great when they go swimming themselves, but sometimes they need a bit of a push!! I tend to now increase the humidity (or just spray a bit with water) in the days leading up to the shed. Then they can get the whole thing off in once piece and it's much easier for them.

    I'm sure all will go back to normal once the rest of the shed is removed.
     
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  14. Snapped

    Snapped Subscriber Subscriber

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    I'm thinking they are not burns, I can put my hand around the light cage and not get burnt or even really hot. Yes, the eating was just a side note, nothing to do with the marks, as it's been since early Feb he hasn't been eating.

    Yes, an incomplete shed, he's rubbed most of it off now. He has had a few incomplete sheds previously, maybe 4 or so, I give him a soak if it's bad, or sometimes just let him slide through a wet towel. He loves having a soak in the big tub I made specifically for that/and for transport to vets etc, has air holes.

    I'm not sure it will go back to normal, the marks are still there as he's rubbed the rest of the shed off today. The humidity should be fine, he's had a big water tub in there in the warm side, just to increase humidity a bit, as in SA its quite dry, especially during the summer.

    Anyway, two separate problems, the lack of feeding and these strange marks....will see what the vet says on the weekend. I did buy some fuzzy rats and velvet mice today, just to see if he will take something small.....but won't be trying until he has seen the vet.

    My MD python always shed in one piece, every single time, I saw him a couple of times in the process, so amazing to see it happen, just peeled off like a glove...my RSP was a problem shedder, usually in two or three sections...which was strange seeing as they were in the same (divided) huge enclosure.
     
  15. GBWhite

    GBWhite Well-Known Member

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    Hi Snapped,

    It will be interesting to see what the vets says but for what it's worth...here is my two bob's worth.

    From what I can see of the photos, that pink discolouration and small dark spots between the scales indicates to me that it is a fungal infection which is usually a result of abrasions, retained skin from an attempted shed, parasites, excessive moisture or housing conditions. From what you've informed it is possible that it is a result of small abrasions that have happened as the snake has attempted to rid itself of the retained shed. It doesn't appear to me to be a severe infection at this stage but it does appear to be spreading and fungal infections can spread rather rapidly once the bacteria gets established and it can be lethal if not treated correctly.

    Dependent upon the veterinary diagnosis and severity of the infection I'd discourage the use of any oral or injectable antibiotics unless considered absolutely necessary. Fungal infections will respond quite well to warmth, dryness and daily applications of providone iodine such as Betadine. Personally, I'd remove the snake from the enclosure asap and place it in a clean, dry environment such as an appropriate sized tub ventilated at the top of each end with a paper towel as a substrate and a heat mat under one end for warmth. I'd also provide a small unspillable water bowl at the cool end for the snake to drink and keep it topped up during recovery. You'll need to treat the infection with daily applications of Betadine which you can use in conjunction with an antifungal cream like a type used to treat dermatitis. You should have no trouble in purchasing both from your local chemist.

    You can use a cotton bud to apply the Betadine directly to the infected area or alternatively apply it to the entire ventral surface using a clean cloth. Some people place the snake in a container with a paper towel substrate soaked in a diluted Betadine solution or even a shallow Betadine bath. Personally I am of the opinion that direct application to the infected area with a cotton bud is the best option. Regardless of which option you choose let the Betadine solution dry for about an hour before applying any antifungal cream.

    When treated as above, full recovery from a fungal infection usually takes around 4 to 6 weeks.

    As far as the critter not eating...well that can be as simple as the snake not being hungry, a side effect from the infection or a number of other factors but most inappetance disorders relate to environmental factors. A thermal gradient is of utmost importance. The snake needs an area where it can bask or receive heat from a ground source and a cool area where it can retreat, feel secure and just chill out. I noticed that you are using a 100w IR globe but don't mention if you are also using a heat mat as well. Either way you'd be best using just one or the other. In addition what is the overall ambient temp of the enclosure? My understanding is that IR globes tend to warm the entire enclosure rather than direct heat to a specific area, so If the overall temp of the enclosure is too hot then it can also contribute to a lack of appetite. Can excess heat escape? Where are the air vents located?

    Again shedding problems are usually associated with the snake's environment and the fact that this one has experience this in the past (as has one of your other snakes) indicates that this is more than likely the cause and you may want to reconsider the environment that is being provided. A snake in good condition and set up in the right environment should never have problems shedding in the one piece and despite what some will have keepers believe, with the exception of several specialist species, the enclosure should never need to be sprayed.

    What ever the cause of the lack of appetite, or the dysecdysis (improper shedding) the first thing to address is the infection, then once the snake has recovered you can address the others.

    Cheers,

    George.
     
  16. CF Constrictor

    CF Constrictor Active Member

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    For what its worth , I keep the humidity in my enclosures at around 30% most of the time , and lightly mist when they are in pre shed. Never had any issues with retained skin or fungal infections.
     
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