Jag RPM differences

[Boney]

so what would happen if you bought some pythons that you honestly thought where captive breed because you asked the seller 20 times to tell you the truth ,are these captive breed ...and they say yes i breed them ,and was recommended by someone you thought you could trust. then the person gets investigated for example poaching and other crimes. then say parks and wildlife look into everyone they sold to .. can they take your animals without compensation or how would that work. ? not that i care now as most of these animals died a short time after i picked them up thank christ i had them in a different room to my other animals . its just i guess i never seen so many ticks and skin worms on captive breed animals ...

 

[Fantazmic]

Thatks Syeph and Kenshin for answering my question now I understand what everyone is talking about lol

Elizabeth

 

[Bushfire]

so what would happen if you bought some pythons that you honestly thought where captive breed because you asked the seller 20 times to tell you the truth ,are these captive breed ...and they say yes i breed them ,and was recommended by someone you thought you could trust. then the person gets investigated for example poaching and other crimes. then say parks and wildlife look into everyone they sold to .. can they take your animals without compensation or how would that work. ? not that i care now as most of these animals died a short time after i picked them up thank christ i had them in a different room to my other animals . its just i guess i never seen so many ticks and skin worms on captive breed animals ...

The wildlife authorities can and have done so previously just come over and take them with no compensation at all. All of them have always maintained the line that its the buyers responisbility to ensure that they are buying legal specimens and that if their is any doubt to walk away from the transaction. The only way you can try and get compensation is to sue the seller.

I believe SA have already signalled moves against jags. I know that at a previous enforcement gathering (where all the wildlife agencies get together and talk about recent trends and enforcement activities) they have talked about jags and Ill be surprised if across the board more jags dont get taken.

 

[Kenshin]

The wildlife authorities can and have done so previously just come over and take them with no compensation at all. All of them have always maintained the line that its the buyers responisbility to ensure that they are buying legal specimens and that if their is any doubt to walk away from the transaction. The only way you can try and get compensation is to sue the seller.

I believe SA have already signalled moves against jags. I know that at a previous enforcement gathering (where all the wildlife agencies get together and talk about recent trends and enforcement activities) they have talked about jags and Ill be surprised if across the board more jags dont get taken.

wouldent you be pissed that you pay 5k for an rpm pair then decc takes it, i know if i eventually get them ill be staying quiet as a mouse about them, also by that lodgic wouldent they confiscate GTP's that show exotic traits and caramel coastals which clearly look like they came from paul harris

 

[Snake_Whisperer]

RPM i belive stands for "reduced patterned morelia" (that was my interpretation instead of morph) Sye

No, RPM stands for Reduced Pattern Modified. Source is the originator of the term (on this forum at least).

 

[syeph8]

No, RPM stands for Reduced Pattern Modified. Source is the originator of the term (on this forum at least).

ahhh. well there you go! who is the source?

 

[Boney]

well thats pretty harsh for the wildlife department to just leave it up to the buyer to do the investigating . if the seller is giving you a name and permit number thats all they are asking you for in there books . christ they should be doing there jobs properly and investigating the situation and get the crooks the supplyers . not just punish the victim even more beacause he bought a pretty snake he liked .

 

[Inkage]

So the wildlife departments specifically targets animals tagged ''Jag''? So we can just call them ''RPMS'' or make up another name for them & its fine? How's it work?

 

[syeph8]

So the wildlife departments specifically targets animals tagged ''Jag''? So we can just call them ''RPMS'' or make up another name for them & its fine? How's it work?

hahaha easily tricked government organisation. its like pulling your hands up over your eyes and saying "if i can't see you, you can't see me" and them actually losing you! im sure a few people area aware of whats going though surely... then again...
Does anyone at the DSE actually own a snake or know anything about them? i rang DSE when i picked up my jungle because i was very suprised that there is no species code for them on vic liscence database. i got shifted between like 4 people before i got put on to their "snake guy" who said (and i kid you not!) "i thought a carpet was a carpet... just use a carpet code, i think we have a few".. so i used the variegata one. surely they should know how many jungles sell in vic every year? yet there is no (was no, i am unsure if this is still the case) species code for jungles. just an example of how intelligent the wildlife departments are

 

[CodeRed]

Wildlife departments aren't that dumb. They can read forums too The main problem for them would be one of proof that can withstand scrutiny in a court room.

 

[Kenshin]

i thought that if they cannot prove that they or the parents were aquired from overseas stock then rpms wouldent be fair game for them, whats to stop the origional seller of the parents/grandparents just saying its a natural genetic mutation that happened with his animals and that he dident import anything from overseas illeagaly

surely they cannot take your animals without certiftyed proof?

 

[pyrodarknessanny]

back to the R M P/ jag thing, do the ones SXR be selling have the nuro thing?
i assume all jags are nuro ( and to what degree)?

 

[PilbaraPythons]

Kenshin
The tainted property charge is a reverse onus so in other words, the the D.E.H doesn't have to prove anything. Instead the person charged has to prove that they don't have tainted property. This is why more than a few people have failed under this charge and lost their siezed reptiles in QLD.
In reality though (and putting it a bit more into perspective), the QLD wildlife enforcement situation (as in the past at least) and in relation to most reptiles seizures, was mostly done through the fauna squad ( for want of a better word ) and was actually a branch of the police department and they therefore were far more proactive and perhaps more savy with the law than the D.E.H would normally be.
The QLD Fauna squad by the way, no longer exists. Anyway guys, sorry for drifting somewhat off the topic.

 

[Kenshin]

Kenshin
The tainted property charge is a reverse onus so in other words, the the D.E.H doesn't have to prove anything. Instead the person charged has to prove that they don't have tainted property. This is why more than a few people have failed under this charge and lost their siezed reptiles in QLD.
In reality though (and putting it a bit more into perspective), the QLD wildlife enforcement situation (as in the past at least) and in relation to most reptiles seizures, was mostly done through the fauna squad ( for want of a better word ) and was actually a branch of the police department and they therefore were far more proactive and perhaps more savy with the law than the D.E.H would normally be.
The QLD Fauna squad by the way, no longer exists. Anyway guys, sorry for drifting somewhat off the topic.

thats ok dave thanks for the info it was very informative

 

[mojo73]

RPM i belive stands for "reduced patterned morelia" (that was my interpretation instead of morph) and jags are a co-dominant morph of coastal carpet python that occured over in the uk (dont think it originated in america). to the best of my understanding, this occurred with pure coastal lines. since then, the laws in the uk have allowed them to be crossbred with several other forms of morelia for different behavioural and aesthetic attributes. some argue that there are no pure coastal jags as they were often crossed with smaller species like irian jaya or jungle carpet python to reduce size (it was my understanding, again, that jungles were more commonly used because of their brighter colours, but how would any of us really know unless we have been involved with this developing trend overseas ourselves).

Sye

There are no such Laws. You can breed what you like with what you like. A carpet with another type of carpet, a carpet with a scrub python or even a carpet with a blood python. We can create whatever Frankenstein mutt's we like and only have to answer to our consciences!

 

[CodeRed]

Kenshin
The tainted property charge is a reverse onus so in other words, the the D.E.H doesn't have to prove anything. Instead the person charged has to prove that they don't have tainted property. This is why more than a few people have failed under this charge and lost their siezed reptiles in QLD.
In reality though (and putting it a bit more into perspective), the QLD wildlife enforcement situation (as in the past at least) and in relation to most reptiles seizures, was mostly done through the fauna squad ( for want of a better word ) and was actually a branch of the police department and they therefore were far more proactive and perhaps more savy with the law than the D.E.H would normally be.
The QLD Fauna squad by the way, no longer exists. Anyway guys, sorry for drifting somewhat off the topic.

What happened to the presumption of innocence?

 

[zobo]

after a couple of generations of outcrossing to pure coastals they will appear to be coastal by many tests as the morph is co-dom so quick and easy to cover up and establish. And we know that certain people have had this morph for multiple generations already in Oz.

All the honest people I know of with this line admit it is JAG not RPM.

I think a few people have now lost some cred, and honesty is the best policy (unless your breaking the law I guess!)


j

 

[Boney]

i havent seen any jags for sale only rpm . so all the honest people havent breed them yet ? hows that honest anyway just owning a jag you know you are doing the wrong thing if you knew it was all legit you wouldnt have to hide the fact

 

[PimmsPythons]

i still laugh at the fact that people are still up in arms about the jags/RPM being illegal in australia and saying that "they came from an illegal source!!".yet these same people still proudly display their" local specific" cape yorks,tullys,palmerstons,cowleys,mission beach,proserpines,brisbanes,townsvilles etc,etc which have all obviously been taken illegally from the wild well after the 94 amnesty.
i highly doubt that authorities will do anything about the jags because at the end of the day they are an australian python and it will be damn near impossilby to prove that they were from overseas,(even though we all know it). they have bigger fish to fry than small time snake breeders in the pet trade.we have already seen that even if you get caught smuggling reptiles you basicly get a slap on the wrist so i doubt that anything will happen to the ones that have made it through the airport security system and into the mainstream.
cheers
simon

 

[Greenmad]

Agree with that one simon

i still laugh at the fact that people are still up in arms about the jags/RPM being illegal in australia and saying that "they came from an illegal source!!".yet these same people still proudly display their" local specific" cape yorks,tullys,palmerstons,cowleys,mission beach,proserpines,brisbanes,townsvilles etc,etc which have all obviously been taken illegally from the wild well after the 94 amnesty.
i highly doubt that authorities will do anything about the jags because at the end of the day they are an australian python and it will be damn near impossilby to prove that they were from overseas,(even though we all know it). they have bigger fish to fry than small time snake breeders in the pet trade.we have already seen that even if you get caught smuggling reptiles you basicly get a slap on the wrist so i doubt that anything will happen to the ones that have made it through the airport security system and into the mainstream.
cheers
simon