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I for one feel terribly sad the way our snakes are going... who the hell wants to be like the bloody US?

I think it is messed up we are doing all these things to our snakes.. in 50 years they will be unrecognisable and you won't be able to find a snake that isn't a 'diet lavender creamsicle reduced jag het for granite pie' morph.. it stinks I reckon. For every 1 that looks brilliant there are 10 of its dog ugly siblings and they all just go out to muddy the waters, especially when these morphs are being bred by crossing.

Phil, we hear your concerns,
However we are very different to the US. We have a much larger collection of captive bred morelias, with a larger portion of keepers committed to maintaining pure lines. The US is in trouble as its near impossible for them to get pure lines of morelia. There is always going to be people maintaining pure wild type locales of morelias. I will be one of those people and so are a large number of other morph breeders.

We are already establishing a culture of morph breeders being 100% honest when labelling and selling their animals. There has been plenty of examples of this on recent for sale ads. This is a good thing.......

You only need to look at the positive comments from 98% of replies to the RPM threads, times are changing and morphs are more popular than ever and they are here to stay. But we need to maintain this honesty culture for the greater good of the hobby.......
 
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"We are already establishing a culture of morph breeders being 100% honest when labelling and selling their animals. There has been plenty of examples of this on recent for sale ads. This is a good thing.......

You only need to look at the positive comments from 98% of replies to the RPM threads, times are changing and morphs are more popular than ever and they are here to stay. But we need to maintain this honesty culture for the greater good of the hobby.......[/QUOTE]"

The numbers of hybrids and x's are growing here. It is inevitable because of the money these animals are pulling, and their unique, new look.

If you put the possibility of big dollar returns out there in any field, there will be people jumping on the bandwagon, regardless of whether they are even interested in herps or not.

Maintaining a culture of 100% honesty......... This has brought a smile to my face!

No disrespect meant to you personally Barramundi.
 
Phil, we hear your concerns,
However we are very different to the US. We have a much larger collection of captive bred morelias, with a larger portion of keepers committed to maintaining pure lines. The US is in trouble as its near impossible for them to get pure lines of morelia. There is always going to be people maintaining pure wild type locales of morelias. I will be one of those people and so are a large number of other morph breeders.

We are already establishing a culture of morph breeders being 100% honest when labelling and selling their animals. There has been plenty of examples of this on recent for sale ads. This is a good thing.......

You only need to look at the positive comments from 98% of replies to the RPM threads, times are changing and morphs are more popular than ever and they are here to stay. But we need to maintain this honesty culture for the greater good of the hobby.......

Well said mate! Great to see the Oz morph culture alive and kicking. Exciting times ahead!! :D
 
Barramundi I appreciate a lot of people are doing it the right way and have good morals and whatnot but once jags/RPMs or whatever you wanna call them become moe readily available you're kidding yourself if you think it'll stay all peachy as you say.

I understand there will be people doing it the right way and I had no intention of bad mouthing you or them, but people are people and they will always stuff it up it's really quite inevitable IMO. You're right, morphs are becoming more and more popular.. and soon every bloke and his dog will own one and then what will happen? More will get churned out in the hope of exploiting the trend and making a quick buck, the ugly ones will be sold off left right and centre to whomever and before we know it the whole thing will go pear shaped and there'll be no going back.
 
Barramundi I appreciate a lot of people are doing it the right way and have good morals and whatnot but once jags/RPMs or whatever you wanna call them become moe readily available you're kidding yourself if you think it'll stay all peachy as you say.

I understand there will be people doing it the right way and I had no intention of bad mouthing them, but people are people and they will always stuff it up it's really quite inevitable IMO

PhilK, can you elaborate a little more on how people are going to "stuff it up"??
 
Cement,
Of course there are going to be people that are not going to be honest, but the truth is their are already plenty of people being dishonest with pure lines.
ie false locales etc. Its a problem with this hobby that has existed foe ever and will never go away......

I cetainly will be maintaining honesty and as stated I will encourage other morph breeders to follow suit, thus creating a culture....

People are concerned about hybrids being sold as something they are not, but hybrids are very distinguishable from pure morelias....

Its the same old scenario, if you dont trust the person dont buy from them. The weeds will be sorted out pretty quick.....
 
PhilK, can you elaborate a little more on how people are going to "stuff it up"??

Good morals and intentions will quickly loosen as morphs become readily available and those looking for a quick cash injection will be happy to exploit the trend and breed any old thing and sell to any old person. There will be no careful selection of genetics it will be just wacking two morphs together and selling off what you can.. what happens to the ugly ones? Who cares right? Don't have a nice morph to cross it with, why not be the first person in Australia to breed a diamond bredli jag? It will go the same way as the reptiles in the US I reckon.. natural forms of snakes will be cheap as chips - coastals already go for only around 100 bucks, what's going to happen when the firebelly panther jag morph is around?

As I said I feel confident that the big breeders will have the best interests of the hobby at heart, and will carry out their breeding projects with guidelines and carefully thought out plans while still maintaining 'normal' lines of snakes.. but I don't feel so confident about the general public, and I never will.
 
Good morals and intentions will quickly loosen as morphs become readily available and those looking for a quick cash injection will be happy to exploit the trend and breed any old thing and sell to any old person. There will be no careful selection of genetics it will be just wacking two morphs together and selling off what you can.. what happens to the ugly ones? Who cares right? Don't have a nice morph to cross it with, why not be the first person in Australia to breed a diamond bredli jag? It will go the same way as the reptiles in the US I reckon.. natural forms of snakes will be cheap as chips - coastals already go for only around 100 bucks, what's going to happen when the firebelly panther jag morph is around?

As I said I feel confident that the big breeders will have the best interests of the hobby at heart, and will carry out their breeding projects with guidelines and carefully thought out plans while still maintaining 'normal' lines of snakes.. but I don't feel so confident about the general public, and I never will.

WHAT HAPPENS TO THE UGLY ONES? same as what happens now, people wont buy them as they are not desirable and the breeder wont attempt that pairing again. As said before hybrids are very distinguishable, so it will be very hard to pass them off as something else.....

DIAMOND BREDLI JAG? dont know about you but I think they are pretty hot....

GONNA GO LIKE THE US? already has, except we have a solution at the end of the morph era, we have a much larger access to keepers maintaining pure lines....
 
WHAT HAPPENS TO THE UGLY ONES? same as what happens now, people wont buy them as they are not desirable and the breeder wont attempt that pairing again. As said before hybrids are very distinguishable, so it will be very hard to pass them off as something else.....
What happens when a pair breeds and produces 5 stunners and 10 uglies? These uglies won't be euthanased (well probably not) they will be sold to the buyer at a greatly reduced cost.. may be bred by that buyer and pass on their gross genes haha.. how is that good?

DIAMOND BREDLI JAG? dont know about you but I think they are pretty hot....
Sure but what about the rest of the clutch that aren't? They will get sold off for cheap and go into the gene pool with their crossed genetics and muddy the waters. I can appreciate a 'pretty looking snake' but I think hybrids are a dangerous road this hobby will travel down and in 50 years most snakes getting around will be some sort of mongrel.

GONNA GO LIKE THE US? already has, except we have a solution at the end of the morph era, we have a much larger access to keepers maintaining pure lines....
I certainly hope you're right Barramundi and I'd like to travel 50 years into the future and see what the hobby is like in Australia.

You can think what you like, but I am entitled to my own opinion and that is that despite the best intentions of some breeders, human error will take over as always.

Cheers
 
As said you are entitled to your opinion, I do see your point of view and I am sure others do.

We (morph breeders) are listening to those concerns of yours and others and we will certainly do our best to maintain honesty when selling.......
 
Barramundi,

Can I ask you what you do with the sibs? Are you keeping them yourself, selling them as crosses or 'dispatching' of them?

Feel free to pm if you dont wanna explain it over a forum...
 
As said you are entitled to your opinion, I do see your point of view and I am sure others do.

We (morph breeders) are listening to those concerns of yours and others and we will certainly do our best to maintain honesty when selling.......
I'd just like to say that morph breeders such as yourself are not who I am referring to. I have no doubts whatsoever you are not in this for a quick buck and have the hobby's best interests at heart so please don't take what I am saying as an attack on you or others like you.

My concern is based in what will happen when morphs become so readily available every 3rd person owns one.. THAT is when I see problems occurring.

I would also be interested in the answer to CheyneJones question as to what you do with the less pretty siblings
 
I was actually surprised that all buyers of my RPMs actually wanted the sibs to use with further RPM projects. All were passed on fully labelled for what they were.
 
Do you see any advantage in crossing back with the sibs?

Being a co-dom gene wouldnt it be better to put your two best animals together everytime?
 
No, I dont see any benefit at this point in time. Except for any sibs that may carry other desired genetics ie caramel, albino.

Although, some of the sibs from my WHITE project will turn out nice and pale and would be good to utilise as a cross back to a WHITE RPM. This should produce some cracker WHITE RPMs.

The Caramel and Albino projects are the tracks I am heading down, so the majority of my sibs in the future will have genetic benefit, either being het for albino or Caramel.

But in the future there obviously will be some benefits to using sibs.....
 
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If everyone is about being 100% honest why was the stupid "RPM" term developed in the first place??
 
Damn that was one hell of a read and learning curve! Look forward to seeing how your White Rpms turn out Barra!
 
Good morals and intentions will quickly loosen as morphs become readily available and those looking for a quick cash injection will be happy to exploit the trend and breed any old thing and sell to any old person. There will be no careful selection of genetics it will be just wacking two morphs together and selling off what you can.. what happens to the ugly ones? Who cares right? Don't have a nice morph to cross it with, why not be the first person in Australia to breed a diamond bredli jag? It will go the same way as the reptiles in the US I reckon.. natural forms of snakes will be cheap as chips - coastals already go for only around 100 bucks, what's going to happen when the firebelly panther jag morph is around?

As I said I feel confident that the big breeders will have the best interests of the hobby at heart, and will carry out their breeding projects with guidelines and carefully thought out plans while still maintaining 'normal' lines of snakes.. but I don't feel so confident about the general public, and I never will.

Just that paragraph has put me largely on the side of no-morphs. Having woma's and BHP being cheap and overlooked is a frightening thought. Although it would take a lot longer for australia to reach what america has in morphs seeing as america has a much bigger population and a bigger market for reptiles. We also have licences and cross breeding is illegal in QLD (anywhere else?). I wouldn't mind a cross , but wouldn't cross breed them myself or buy more than one. Still on the no morphs side though. Here is a page from an american morph site, some really nice ones, but like philk said, what happens to the ugly ones? I would hate to see the average pure snake being over looked as cheap and bland.
 
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