QLD Jaguar carpet python

Discussion in 'Wanted to Buy' started by trickedoutz31, Oct 22, 2009.

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  1. trickedoutz31

    trickedoutz31 Suspended Banned

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    ok after a long serch i have come to the decision i want one of these... can anyone help me find one??? here is a pic [​IMG]
     
  2. trickedoutz31

    trickedoutz31 Suspended Banned

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    ok just found out about the jaguar pythons

    Here is the history
    Text of Jan Eric Engell Norway (the founder of JaguarPython)

    "After several years of breeding Coastal Carpet Pythons, Morelia s.
    mcdowelli, (former Morelia s. variegatae) I suddenly produced a most
    unusual looking specimen one day in 1994.

    It looked completely different compared to all other mcdowelli hatchlings
    as far as pattern and color was concerned. It was almost patternless along
    its back except for a few markings on its neck. The background color was
    of a light pinkish tan with light brown blotches bordered with a black
    edging along the sides of the entire body.

    Between the age of two and three the background color of this animal
    turned more and more yellow. As an adult this male still takes my breath
    away even though he has begun shading to very beautiful orange color. No
    signs of fading or black tipping of the background color has occurred in
    this animal, as is often the case with Jungle Carpets as they age.

    In 1997 I named this exceptional specimen the Jaguar Carpet, which I found
    to be most appropriate due to its color and pattern.

    Thus the Jaguar name was introduced to the herp scene for the very first
    time.

    It was now time to find out if this spontaneous mutation was of a dominant
    or recessive trait. In 1998 I bred him with an unrelated Coastal female.
    Unfortunately this resulted in only four good eggs. However, one of the
    babies turned out to be a true Jaguar Carpet. Now there was no doubt that
    this was a genetic trait. The background color of this specimen turned
    completely yellow during its second year and with an unbelievable head
    pattern.

    Using the same breeding pair in 1999 I produced twelve babies. Four were
    normals and eight were true Jaguars. All of these went to the United
    States.

    The following year I managed to produce approximately 50% normals and 50%
    Jaguars from two unrelated mcdowelli females. This suggests that the
    Jaguar gene is of a co-dominant trait.
    One female (#2 on the Coastal page) laid 49 eggs, whereas 4 were
    non-viable. 22 Jaguars and 23 normal sibs was the result from this clutch.
    Perhaps not so astonishing since the female at the time was 11 feet long
    and weighing close to 22 pounds, but still a pretty impressive sized
    clutch.
    Thanks to the founder Jaguar male.

    Finally, something even more spectacular appeared among the 22 Jags that
    year, namely the patternless Banana Jaguar Carpet with only a small blotch
    between her eyes. She was one of a kind, but unfortunately she died in
    2002 before she reached the age of two. I have been hoping to produce some
    new ones ever since, but the large female Coastal has not produced a
    clutch since.

    She was imported to Norway in 1976 when she was only about 4 feet long and
    today she is a huge monster at close to 13 feet with a weight of over 30
    pounds. Her head is as big as my rather large fist and she has a really
    bad temper to go along with it. I am still hoping every year that she will
    lay a new clutch, but I am afraid she might have passed her retirement
    age.

    The second female (#1 on my Coastal page) started the Hypo and Red Hypo
    Jaguar project that year. She was bred to the son of the founder, who I
    simply call “Junior” and who made his sexual debut quite early. Even
    though their clutch was small compared to the other one, this breeding
    pair managed to produce a few Hypo Jaguars including the first Red Hypo
    Jaguar pair.

    The two Red Hypos not only lacked black tipping on the background scales,
    but also showed no signs of developing black tipping within the blotches.
    They simply looked amazing…

    The background color of the Hypo Jaguar juveniles should slowly start to
    turn yellow by one year and continue to intensify as they age.

    Despite the fact that the founder male did not turn bright yellow until
    the age of three, it seems like most of the offspring from the hypo
    bloodline develop the yellow coloration much earlier. The background color
    of the Red Hypos on the other hand turn into a more white coloration with
    age, extending from ivory white to cream to a soft yellowish white. As
    adults they can almost be called white hypos.

    Regular Jaguars develop black tipping either on their background scales or
    within their blotches or both. As you can clearly see on the Regular
    Jaguar page. This development can start right after their first shed as a
    juvenile or take up to their second year to develop. Hypo and Red Hypo
    Jaguars do not develop black tipping and that is why I call them hypos,
    namely due to the fact that these specimens have a reduction in black
    pigmentation. Even H. Bernard Bechtel, who wrote the book “Reptile and
    Amphibian Variants”, agrees with me on this point.

    It was not until 2003 I did my first Jaguar to Jaguar breeding and from
    that point on I have had some pretty amazing results as well as producing
    a few new Jaguar morphs. The following breedings and results have taken
    place here at my facility since 2003 and up until today.

    HYPO JAGUAR x HYPO JAGUAR (3 clutches) = mostly Hypo Jaguars and a few Red
    Hypos together with normal sibs and some dead Leucists. I also produced
    the very first Super Hypo from my high yellow Hypo pair in 2003.

    The Hypo Jaguars from such a clutch are really high contrast in pattern
    and color even at birth, especially the ones produced by the breeder pair
    already mentioned.

    The Red Hypos are also unique from this breeding since the background
    color of the 2003 specimens have turned bright yellow instead of the usual
    white. A Hypo Tiger Jaguar was produced in 2004. No Regular Jaguars were
    produced. Since I have only produced small clutches from such breedings
    due to the fact that close to half of the eggs have gone bad during
    incubation I do need a perfect clutch in order to iron out the exact % of
    each morph from such a breeding.

    There might also be other hidden morphs.......
    I do have such a perfect clutch in the incubator ready to hatch any day
    now. The results will be updated later.

    RED HYPO JAGUAR X RED HYPO JAGUAR (4 clutches) = mostly Red Hypos
    (including blue tongued and a few red tongued specimens), a few Hypos and
    sibs, Super Red Hypos and some dead leucists. Two of these leucists stayed
    alive for a while. No Regular Jaguars were produced.

    One of the two clutches I produced this year from such a breeding was
    finally a perfect 100% clutch (no slugs!) consisting of 21 eggs with the
    following results:

    4 Leucists (dead!)
    4 Super Reds (including twins!)
    3 Leopard Jaguars - red burgandy phase
    1 Leopard Jaguar - super red phase
    4 Red Hypos
    2 Hypos
    4 Normal Sibs


    So there you are, a new Jaguar morph can appear if you produce a perfect
    clutch. The Leopard Jaguar will be updated with pics later. More
    importantly, what is the actual SUPER morph in the Jaguar trait?
    I have never believed it to be the Leucistic Jaguar. Seems to me that the
    leucist gene is one of many within the Jaguar project, something the
    results of the breeding above should clearly indicate.

    As with “Supers” from other co-dominant mutation breedings the Super
    usually resembles the original morph, but is a much better looking animal
    with brighter colors and less pattern. Or with a unique new pattern
    altogether even though it is easy to see where it came from.

    An example of many being the Tiger Retic and the Super Tiger Retic or the
    Pastel Balls and the Super Pastels. An even better example is the Platty
    Ball python project. Here you have combinations of Lesser Platty balls
    producing not only two leucistic forms, but also the Super Lessers.
    The Platty obviously has several hidden genes, much like that of the
    Jaguar Carpet.
    With the Leopard Jaguar suddenly appearing I am getting even more confused
    concerning the Jaguar trait, but for now I am sticking to what I have
    called the Supers on my website, at least until the opposite has been
    proven.

    More perfect clutches have to be produced before the Jaguar puzzle is in
    place.

    HYPO JAGUAR X RED HYPO JAGUAR (1 clutch 2004) =
    2 Red Hypo Jaguars, 3 Super Red Hypo Jaguars, 1 Hypo Jaguar and 2 dead
    Leucists.
    No normal sibs or Regular Jaguars were produced. There were several slugs
    in this clutch so the result speaks for itself. More clutches needed in
    order to iron out the possibilities from such a breeding.

    REGULAR JAGUAR X REGULAR JAGUAR =
    Such a breeding has not taken place at my facility, simply because I have
    not kept any Regular females. I have concentrated on Hypos due to lack of
    space.
    However, Are Hogner at Oslo Reptile Park has done so and produced the
    first Tiger Jaguar in 2003. Otherwise I do not have his exact results so
    this is something I will have to come back to.
    Other Jaguar breedings that have taken place since my last update are as
    follows.


    HYPO JAGUAR X UNRELATED COASTAL FEMALES =
    During the past three seasons I have bred my high yellow Hypo Jaguar male
    with 3 different unrelated Coastal females. Approximately 50% Jaguars and
    50% Normal Sibs was the result, not so strange considering the Jaguar
    trait is of a co-dominant trait. The hatchlings all looked like Hypos or
    Red Hypos when they were born, but a few started to develop this scale
    tipping already after their first shed. While others have taken up to two
    years to develop such tipping. Even though the amount of black tipping
    varies from specimen to specimen they do seem to develop this scale
    tipping with age, either on the background scales or within the blotches
    or both. Exactly like the Regular Jaguars do.

    However, the bright colors of these “intermedia” Jaguars develop at a much
    earlier stage (usually during their first and second year), much like that
    of the true Hypo Jaguars. They simply have a much cleaner and high
    contrast appearance despite of the black tipping. I therefore prefer to
    call them high contrast Jaguars so they do not get confused with Regular
    or Hypo Jaguars.

    RED HYPO JAGUAR X UNRELATED COASTAL FEMALES =
    This has not been done at my facility. However, I expect the same results
    as when breeding a Hypo Jaguar with unrelated Coastal females.

    Unless you are lucky enough to own a normal, unrelated Coastal with a
    hidden hypo gene. Something a US breeder is supposed to have. Just like
    the normal Coastal female I am fortunate to own without knowing about her
    “little secret” until she started the Hypo and Red Hypo Jaguar project.
    New hypo bloodlines are good to find within the Carpet Python world.

    I have found that the only way to produce Hypo and Red Hypo Jaguars is by
    breeding Hypo x Hypo, Red Hypo x Red Hypo, Red Hypo x Hypo or Hypo x
    Normal Sib (from the Hypo/Red Hypo line) and Red Hypo x Normal Sib (from
    the Hypo/Red Hypo line).

    Otherwise, as already mentioned a Coastal with a hidden hypo gene is
    needed. Someone out there might very well own such a specimen without
    knowing, even though it is rare.

    REGULAR JAGUAR X UNRELATED COASTALS =
    As with all Jaguar morphs when bred to a unrelated Coastal you do produce
    approximately 50% Regular Jaguars and 50% Normal Sibs. However, so far I
    have been fortunate enough to produce the Banana Jaguar among the Regular
    Jaguars in the year 2000 and almost another one (with two blotches) the
    year before, except this specimen managed to drown inside the egg before
    it was supposed to hatch.

    Secondly, the Hypo and Red Hypo project from another unrelated Coastal
    female the same year. And finally in 2004 the Axanthic Jaguar (3 more
    Axanthics this year!) from a third unrelated Coastal female.

    These three breedings have been a result of breeding 3 separate Regular
    Jaguar males with 3 normal, unrelated Coastal females (also unrelated to
    each other). So what is going on? The Jaguar Carpet obviously has multiple
    hidden genes and depending on what genetic material lies within an
    unrelated Coastal counterpart you might very well be facing a totally new
    Jaguar morph.
    I guess you could say I have been blessed 3 times already! The fact that
    it has happened to me does not mean it cannot happen to others also. The
    next new morph can just as well appear at some other Jaguar owner’s
    facility.
    NORMAL SIB (Hypo/Red Hypo Jaguar line) X HYPO JAGUAR (1 clutch) =
    I produced exactly 12 Sibs, 9 Hypo Jaguars and 3 Red Hypo Jaguars from
    such a clutch.
    The Hypo and Red Hypo Jaguars from such a breeding all look fantastic with
    no black tipping.

    I will be producing more such clutches in order to find out more.


    NORMAL SIB X NORMAL SIB (Both from Hypo/Red Hypo Jaguar line) =
    My findings are from two clutches. Only Normal Sibs were produced even
    though they had various patterns and colors. I now consider the normal
    sibs from the Hypo/Red Hypo Jaguar line to be most useful since when bred
    to a Hypo or Red Hypo Jaguar they are in fact capable of producing both of
    the Hypo Jaguar morphs.

    The Leucistic Jaguars are obviously a weak link within the Jaguar trait.
    So far I have produced a total of 26 dead leucists from the 8 Jaguar x
    Jaguar clutches mentioned earlier on this page.

    One of these leucists hatched by itself and stayed alive for a couple of
    hours while another one stayed alive for three days within its egg. Are
    Hogner of Oslo Reptile Park has produced 8 leucists so far from his
    Regular Jaguar pair. One of these stayed alive for about 26 hours after
    hatching while another one stayed alive inside the egg for over two days
    before it died. He has taken video footage of this Leucistic Jaguar while
    it was alive. You may view this footage on the "Jaguar Photos" page.

    From a total of 34 Leucistic Jaguars produced here in Norway (from two
    different sources) only three have shown any signs of external body
    abnormalities (kinks etc.). The rest have looked perfect.

    So why does the few that hatch by themselves die shortly after? Could it
    be that their lungs are simply disfunctional during the transition to
    atmospheric breathing? Or could it be caused by some other internal
    disorder? I believe the only way to produce a healthy leucistic specimen
    is to dilute the Jaguar bloodline by several generations and then breed
    two completely unrelated Jaguars to each other.

    On another genetic note. It seems to me that if you breed a Jaguar male
    with several normal, unrelated Coastal females this might most likely
    result in an unequal distribution of the different morphs, according to
    the variations in the genetic material of the various normal Coastal
    females.

    An example might be that I have only produced 3 banded Jaguar specimens
    (from 3 separate Jaguar morphs) during the course of three years while a
    US breeder in 2004 produced a clutch from his Red Hypo
    Jaguar male to a normal, unrelated female Coastal, whereas most of the
    hatchlings were banded.

    The above statements reflects only on my findings at my facility so far.
    Breedings will vary of course. There is still a lot to be learnt, but I am
    slowly learning more each year as far as the Jaguar trait is concerned.
    I do not have all the answers. More breeding and perfect clutches are
    required in order to iron out the possibilities. It seems like an endless
    quest since it looks like a new Jaguar morph appears almost annually. I am
    not complaining though.
    The Jaguar project is without a doubt the most interesting Carpet Python
    project around and probably for years to come.

    There has been a lot of discussions on Carpet forums whether my Jaguars
    are actual Coastals or not.
    During the 1960’ies and 1970’ies the only Carpet Pythons you could get
    your hands on here in Europe were Coastals. All of the Carpets I collected
    at the time were the Brisbane variety.

    Their lenghts speak for themselves. Simply the fact that my Coastals have
    reached lenghts on average of 10-11 feet, with the exceptions of a few 13
    footers should be proof enough. My “Big Mamma“ as I call my oldest normal
    Coastal is now 13 feet. Two of my largest Jaguars are now approximately 10
    and 11 feet long.
    Do Jungles or Irians reach such sizes?


    I had not even heard about Jungle or Irian Carpets when the new reptile
    law went into effect on January 1st. 1977, making it illegal to import
    reptiles to Norway. From this date on it was also illegal to own reptiles
    unless you obtained a dispensation from the Ministry of Agriculture. I do
    possess such a permit on all my snakes.

    My facility is inspected a few times each year by the Norwegian Veterinary
    authorities. Not only are the python eggs inspected and counted, but also
    the babies after they hatch. Everything is accounted for and if as much as
    one animal should die during the year I have to put it in the freezer and
    report it to the authorities. I also have to keep the empty eggs frozen
    until the inspector arrives. All the frozen eggs as well as potential dead
    animals are then handed over to the vet. inspector. These are used in
    educational purposes or properly disposed of by the authorities.
    THAT IS HOW STRICT IT IS HERE IN NORWAY. Be glad you herpers do not live
    here!

    In other words keeping illegal animals at my facility is not worth the
    risk of having my collection confiscated. The only Carpet Python I have a
    permit for is the Coastal Carpet (former variegatae, now mcdowelli) and
    that is the only Carpet specie I intend to keep here in Norway. End of
    story!

    And if you wonder why it was called variegatae back then it was simply
    because the Morelia “Carpet” group was devided into variegatae (all the
    Carpets), bredli (Centralians) and spilota (Diamonds). They were not
    separated into subspecies back then.

    So there won’t be any further misunderstandings to the following warning.
    Two Europeans and one Las Vegas petstore manager tried to pass off their
    Irian Jaya Carpets as true Jaguars during 2001/2002. I have kept all the
    correspondence as evidence, just in case I ever needed proof.
    NOTE!

    Be aware that there are a few Irian Jaya Carpets out there that can be
    mistaken for true Jaguar Coastals. At least as far as pattern is
    concerned, but the comparison ends there. Most importantly, the color is
    totally different.

    True Jaguars develop with age a bright yellow/orange background color.
    Furthermore, the true Jaguar bloodline is capable of producing several
    unique Jaguar morphs.
    I would therefore simply call these Irian Jayas for so-called "false"
    Jaguars at best, since they lack the possibilities of true Jaguars. Even
    though Irian Jaya Carpets are beautiful animals I would not want people to
    get ripped off, expecting or hoping these to be from my Jaguar bloodline.
    I just wanted to clear this up once and for all"
     
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