John Howard new laws

[Kyro]

well the timing stinks & of course JH has votes on his mind atm but the reality is that something has to be done & he is doing it.I have lived near & seen what goes on in these communities & believe me half of you wouldn't have a clue about how bad the situation is.These people need help immediately & who the hell are we to critisice the one person that actually has the power to get in there & do something about it, even if it only causes a temporary stir it's better than nothing & could just prevent 1 child from being molested today & that would be worth it.

 

[cobb]

i say go in gung ho, you cant get any worse then 5yo girls with STI's.

These people walk around town with petrol cans straped to there faces like theres nothing wrong with it.

These people have major problems, there not gonna fix themselves.

donk

spot on. something should have been done a long time a go.

 

[Tetras]

Does any1 think that what Johnny is doing is racist?
Would he do it if it was a white commmunity or even an ethnic community?

 

[junglist*]

First up let me say I don't like John Howard (its a gun ban thing) BUT I can't believe you people who think this is a stunt. Currently in the NT court system is a case of 4-5 men and 4 kids that were drunk and stoned and they pack raped a 14 year old boy 7 times. This happened down south with a white girl and a pack of lebanese guys and there was an uproar! But this is barely even news worthy. Women are bashed, kids are molested by drunken men who spend all their money on booze and drugs so their familys don't eat or have to eat crap. The PM wants to, rightly, put a stop to it and some of you along with old Mal Fraiser and his band of half cast winging aborigional wannabe politicans try to misdirect the plan as a stunt to grab land! At least the PM doing something and not burying his head in the sand like the NT government.

Mal Fraiser said that there was no consultation with the elders.....news flash...the elders have no control and have been doing NOTHING! Any poor kid or woman in a community that gets sexually assulted is ostracised by that same community AND right under the noses of the "Elders"a

snakes4me2 said "Ahh the stolen generation starts again" Give me a break. Come up here and have a look at these communities. Kids with STD's, malnutrition, you know a few decades ago aborigional kids whose parents worked on stations went to school and at these schools they had showers, cleaned their teeth with a tooth brush that was kept there for them and had at least one good meal. This however was seen as condesending by the do gooders and now they get bugger all. They arn't even made to go to school. My kids go to a school here in Darwin where some community kids attend and every morning the red cross puts on breakfast for them. To some of them this is their only good meal and this is a community in a city!

A lot of kids (and adults) can't speak english. If they were imigrants everybody would be saying that they should speak english before they come into the country! go figure! Then we get told its a national disgrace that their health care is up to crap while drunken men beat up community nurses and drive them away. Or that there are no jobs, really??? could it be because they live in VERY remote areas with no industry, or that they have no education because they just don't go to school???

Someone mentioned petrol sniffing. There is a non sniffable fuel called Opel. Some communities WANTED this fuel and said if they got a bowser installed they would look after their kids better ie. bathing, eating better etc. This wasn't good enough for the do gooders down south and the program was nearly scraped. And this is what some communities wanted!

My wife worked in NT housing in Katherine a few years ago and she had a aborigional bloke and his 3 year old son come in applying for a house. This bloke had just moved to Katherine from a community. The wife said she's never seen a more beautiful and healthy look kid. His eyes were bright and clear not the yellow of most of the aborigional kids in Katherine. The father said that he moved into town to get away from the drinking and so his kids could get an education and so they would not be intimidated by white people. He said he will not let his kids eat crap only bush tucker, which is why his boy was so healthy. This bloke has my respect and admiration and you people who think someone trying to put a stop to the disgrace of child molesting is just buying votes have my utter contempt.

So yes go in there and ban grog/porn, its about bloody time. And don't give me the line about banning grog in white communities until you've seen the effect it has on the women and children in these aborigional communities.

Whew.....I'll hop of the soapbox now....

Howards idea is absolutely terrible. It simply cannot work, because theres a funny hting about alcohol addictions, they kill you if you go cold turkey. Your last comment, about seeing what alcohol in aboriginal communities is laughable. The situation is NO different in white communities, its just hidden better.

You have earnt my contempt with this rant, for although there are some valid points within this legislation, it is RACIST and discriminatory. Yes, there are alcohol problems within these communities, but the problems go beyond that, Yes there are problems with sexual crimes being committed against those who cannot defend themselves, BUT THESE ARE NOT THE ONLY COMMUNITIES THESE CRIMES HAPPEN WITHIN.

The whole taking half the welfare checks - good idea, but could have been spread across the entire country, IT WOULD BE A GOOD MOVE, but it would lose howard votes, so he opts for the racist approach and goes with singling out aboriginal communities.

There havebeen so many reports, that to NOT see that this legislation is a knee jerk reaction in attempt to buy votes for the upcoming election and to deflect the public's attention away from EVERY OTHER NON-POLICY he has.. This issue is the next TAMPA crisis. If you cannot see htat, then i guess you voted for him in the last few elections, - "oh yes we know he lied to us, but we still trust him".'

This head in the sand approach will never work, and nor will instigating changes which apply only to aboriginal communities.

Many of the sex crimes which are being reported inthese communities not only happen to be perpetrated by aboriginal individuals, but by white men going in and raping kids, simply as payment for probviding a few cases of beer, or a few grams of weed.

Maybe, the cessation of prohibition, and the provision of these drugs IN A SUPERVISED fashion would make a difference.

KAVA, from the plant piper mesthiculum, has been used in a few trials in the NT WITH AMAZING RESULTS in lowering the amount of violence being perpetrated.

 

[waruikazi]

The problem with this policy/law is that it was not developed with the input of the indigenous population and is now being thrust upon them. All this will do IMO is cause indigenous people to rebel and hold contempt towards the law makers and enforcers. This law will need the backing from the people who it is going to affect before it can have a positive affect. Before anyone says 'Why would the ped's and the abusers back this law?' of course 'they' wouldn't, but not all of the community are peds and abusers and they are the people who need to back it.

For along time now aboriginal people have not been able and in some cases willing to own and take control of their own lives. Beleive it or not this is what needs to change before any real difference in community and long grass lifestyles are going to change in the Territory atleast and this really starts with nutrition and education for both the kids and the adults.

Maybe this is the kind of control that needs to be taken, but unless it is backed by the communities it will do little more than have a short term affect and piss people off. I do know what i am talking about, i have been working with indigenous kids for the past 3 years and i am going out to an indigenous community in 2 months. I am not a tea tottling beaurocrat do gooder.

 

[Tetras]

What waruikazi says is true about the commnuties. If they dont except it then what good will it do?
Once the police leave it may just go back to normal.

What about the fact that everyone is looking at how great John Howard is and how much good he is doing for the aboriginal commnutity in NT.
But the view has now shifted away from his policy on Work Place laws. Our good old prime minister is taking away them laws so a business can fire anyone it wants much more easily. A business employing less than 200 people can fire an employee without giving a reason. Is this unfair?

 

[Earthling]

Pollies can't do anything until the people are ready to accept it. You'll notice that labor didn't come up with a policy to do anything about it until the libs did, then they agreed with the plan.
I'm not saying it's an ideal answer but something needs to be done. Got a better answer Earthling? Oh that's right, your answer was to throw $400 million at them and hope it goes away.
The Answer IMO is to get rid of this government sanctioned racism that diferentiates between Australian aborigines and everyone else. Apply the laws we have.

I wonder if you will ever agree with something I say magpie? Somehow I doubt it.

Ahem.....Labor did not initially come up with a plan period as far as I can see, apart from a plan of initially agreeing with John. The only reason Liberals came up witha plan is that a report came out about the abuse........or am I wrong and in the past the Australian people accepted pedophilia? But last week they changed their mind? So the Governemnt is going to do something about it.....Mmmmmmmmmm........

Regarding your statement that my answer is throw $400 000 000 and hope it goes away....where did you read that in my argument? I cant see it. Please show me.

Me?.....Do I have a better answer? Yes. Talk to the Aboriginal Communities, talk to phsychologists and Welfare people who have a specialisation in Aboriginal communities and their issues. Talk and talk some more. Then make a plan that has the support of the Aboriginal Community and Phycologists and put the plan into action. Something that will work. Even better soemthing that has been proven to work in similiar communities. Not something that will appease the masses just before an election, but something that will work. This will however need money and Government support throughout the phase. Also an issue such as this will take generations to fix. No quick fix. Pedophilia is a generational change.

As to your answer I would say it has merits however its fataly flawed. To disregard the affect of what we as a nation have done to the Aboriginal Communities and what we have allowed to happen in those Aboriginal Communities is something that would just further our estrangement from the Aboriginal population. We must acept that what has happened in the past has at times been wrong and the negative effect on the Aboriginal Population must be noted and accepted. To treat Aboriginal communites differently is to accept that they have different issues then 'white' communities as of their past and culture. It is not about Government Sanctioned racism but its about realism. Acceptance. Or do you think every community is the same? I hope not.

 

[moosenoose]

This debate is stupid, this sort of thing has been going on since my grandfather was a young man, and he’s now 98. He used to work tirelessly in trying to help communities such as these and he himself has finally come to the realization that it’s an uphill battle and we’ve lost it ever since it started. Tribal law is about the only thing these people respect, and that’s fair enough as far as I’m concerned, let the elders make the rules that these people should live by!

We constantly supply these communities with housing, and they burn it down, we supply them money and they spend it on grog, and eventually their kids grow up and then put their hands out because they say that their parents should have never been given the money in the first place as they were too irresponsible (it’s the same deal happening in recent times with the NZ Maoris).

So in hindsight, our intervention appears to have done more damage than good. This attempted harnessing of the Aboriginal people has been going on for decades and decades and decades and it has never fully worked…why? Apart from scenarios like the Stolen Generation and the fact they still consider us invaders...... vast numbers despise us, alcohol has wrecked many of these communities and this contributes to more finger pointing. Personally I think they should be given as much land as possible with a big fence around it and massive signs erected at every entrance saying “Whitey Keep Out”…let them sort out their own affairs and continue living how they once did… they have an option, like everybody does, I’m all for specially funded schooling and programs, medical facilities and health care but that is probably where it should stop...there…problem solved 8)

 

[Earthling]

Here Here Waruikaza!

Junglist you always have some good comments and thoughts.

 

[waruikazi]

But that $400 000 000 would go an awful long way to help solve alot of issues in indigenous communities. I have seen so many NT laws pass that are little more than quick fixes to bring in some votes. None of them have had any long term effect, i can not see how this new law could.

What the hell do they expect the army to do? I mean seriously what could the army possibly do that will have a positive long term ecffect on the communities?

 

[Felix]

Clearly years of pouring cash into these communitys has been like pouring water in the desert.
Its all soaked up and no result. If aboriginal people cannot, or will not, live the whitemans way, and up to the standards of the culture, then they should revert to their original culture and live as they have for thousands of years.
The half white , alcoholic, fuel sniffing, no respect for anyone including themselves way must end.
purebreds, whats left of them, are decent, proud people, who retain their culture and their self respect.
white man has interferred enough with them, no more! Either be aboriginal, or be Australian,
these slum people are neither. Any aboriginal leaders worth their weight would agree and encourage youngsters one way or another.
these slums should be cleared out and burnt to the ground, the people made to choose!

 

[Earthling]

The army could shoot them and then their would be no problem! Hey it worked for a while in brazil with the homeless..........

 

[Felix]

How many cathy freemans and Ernie dingos are there? $$$ hasnt bought that! for 200 yrs!
If there are genuine freeman/dingo wannabes, then provide the $$ for them, no druggys, no alcos, no layabouts.
you cant force people to help themselves, its a mentality! a victim mentality and the white gov is to blame. help those who will be genuine only.
I agree with magpie, no more bias, one law for all, or go live in the scrub!

The army could shoot them and then their would be no problem! Hey it worked for a while in brazil with the homeless..........

I beleive we already tried that! brush up on history.

 

[-Peter]

What new laws? There are no new laws? Nothing has been passed by parliament. Its all being done under existing legislation.

 

[Earthling]

I beleive we already tried that! brush up on history.

Ummmmmm...it was a joke.............yes a bad one..but still a joke.

 

[rodentrancher]

And then there is the condition of our poor Murray River! I just cannot believe how many new vineyard and horticultural plantings have been allowed to go ahead over the last 5 years or more. The government already knew that we were in a drought situation and they are still giving out water licenses! Grrrrrrr!!!!

 

[Felix]

Ummmmmm...it was a joke.............yes a bad one..but still a joke.

likewise!

 

[Midol]

I call it racism.

Someone supply statistics to show child abuse in aboriginal communities is A LOT higher than in white communities.

The reason it is racist is because ONLY indigenous communities are targeted, if all communities with issues with alcoholism and child abuse were being targeted then it wouldn't be discrimination.

 

[nuthn2do]

I call it racism.

Someone supply statistics to show child abuse in aboriginal communities is A LOT higher than in white communities.

The reason it is racist is because ONLY indigenous communities are targeted, if all communities with issues with alcoholism and child abuse were being targeted then it wouldn't be discrimination.

It's the elders and community leaders calling for intervention, how is that racist?

 

[Felix]

Someone supply statistics to show child abuse in aboriginal communities is A LOT higher than in white communities.

why should it be higher? should it be addressed ONLY if its higher?
imo DOCS (any welfare agency) have alot to answer for in any community, very very poor record)