keeping illegaly

[Sdaji]

Reptile examples Sdaji! This is a reptile forum isnt it. We are discussing exotic reptiles are we not? I dont think bunnies and cats and camels have anything to do with the capability of a reptile to inhabit and occupy a new habitat! Always clever.

I was talking about toxins and Australia, you said the only reason the toads are a problem is because they're poisonous, but clearly, it's not necessary to be poisonous to be successful. I can't give you many examples of feral reptiles in Australia because fortunately they haven't been given the chance to establish themselves... mostly...

Okay, you want reptile examples...the species of reptiles which are feral in Australia are not poisonous (Red Eared Sliders, Flower Pot Snakes, Asian House Geckoes). There were reports of a feral population of Jackson's Chamaeleons around Sydney a few years ago which was erradicated before it spread too far, but I can't confirm that.

If you look at places where exotic reptiles are legally kept, you'll get a lot more examples of ferals than in Australia, where they are illegal. There are feral iguanas, goannas, snakes, geckoes... we all know this, we know they're not poisonous, we also know that excluding the frozen poles, Australia is the most vulnerable continent to exotic invaders, so if it has happened elsewhere, it can more easily happen here.

 

[Morelia_Hunter]

Good point Dicco. It is a reptile paradise. I am just wondering what the chances would be of 2 ferral corn snakes coming into contact with each other!

 

[shamous1]

Want exotics - Go to the Zoo

 

[Morelia_Hunter]

Please, those animals a clear threat to Australian wildlife, flowerpot snakes? Oh my god the flowerpot snakes are coming!!!! On a more serious note. And asian house geckoes are all over the world, i have not heard of them causing another species to turn endangered! And go have a read up on how those animals became ferral. Most of them were released in great numbers from day one!!!!

 

[Kris]

It's okay Hix, my question was actually aimed at Yayo, who put across an opinion which seemed (to me at least) to be somewhat lacking in logic and I asked him for some clarification, his point (and my question) are on the first page.

 

[Hickson]

Considering we have the most diverse and largest number of reptiles in the world It would seem appropriate to believe we are more at risk as reptiles can flourish here.

Very good argument.

The NPWS in NSW did actually issue exotic licences in 1997 only to be told by the Depty of Ag that they were illegal and to stop doing it.

That's nt entirely correct. The licences were issued by NPWS when the licensing system was introduced - people with exotics declared them and were granted licenses under the amnesty. When the new Federal legislation was enacted it effectively voided Exotic licenses. However, those with licenses were permitted to continue with them.

And the Federal body responsible is not Dept of Ag or DPI, but DEC in Canberra.



Hix

 

[Retic]

This is a very emotive subject which often brings the worst out in people. The way I see it there are 2 ways to go, one is we stay as we are largely making next to no impact on the numbers of exotics out there OR some form of legislation is bought in to legalise/control at least some of them.
Until cats are controlled I'm afraid I can't take the anti argument very seriously. I'm just nipping out to put my falme proof suit on :lol:

 

[Tristis]

the way i see it is that there is that many exotics and that many people breeding them in oz that no matter what happens exotics will be avalibale no matter what, wheather made legal or not. if they made all non venomuse exotics legal the chances are that vipers rattlesnakes and cobras will be more common than what they are because they are illegal. like it or not exotics are going to be avalibale in oz no matter what.
just my 2 cents

 

[Dicco]

This is a very emotive subject which often brings the worst out in people. The way I see it there are 2 ways to go, one is we stay as we are largely making next to no impact on the numbers of exotics out there OR some form of legislation is bought in to legalise/control at least some of them.
Until cats are controlled I'm afraid I can't take the anti argument very seriously. I'm just nipping out to put my falme proof suit on :lol:

I must disagree Boa, with education, better policing and better publicity of our own Reptiles and other natives, co-inciding with a well done amnesty unlike our last I believe although there will still be exotics no doubt, we would at least reduce this signifficantly.

With increased public awarness those who were simply unaware would now know better, if this coincided with an amnesty they could give up their animals without fear.

Those keeping illegals with full knowlege they are illegal, but keep them because it's so easy to get away with now would be less inclined to keep them if it was policed better and large numbers were confiscated with real fines given out.

Of cource this is not perfect and the more 'hardcore' keepers would still have them, but it would reduce them and I believe it the best option we have at present.

Legalising would make it worse, and if it had tough restrictions there would stilkl be illegal animals.

 

[basketcase]

I must disagree Boa, with education, better policing and better publicity of our own Reptiles and other natives, co-inciding with a well done amnesty unlike our last I believe although there will still be exotics no doubt, we would at least reduce this signifficantly.

reduce what?

the reasons for keeping exotic herps out of the country are already here. disease, feral populations etc. its going to get far worse before it gets better.

bottom line if someone wants a boa (or any other species), they will get one. this will never change, and thats why the government needs to change its point of view on the subject.

 

[Tristis]

we had 2 amnestys the first in 1997 the other not so long ago the guys with the big exotic collections only declaired the common exotic as anything deamed as rare or endanged would be taken by NPWS so alot of stuff didnt get declaired. the second was for people who had 1 or 2 exotics. NPWS could still charge you if you declaired a collection of exotics, it was up to them wheater or not they saw you as a breeder/dealer so in NSW 1 corn and 1 slider were declaired. i no of 3 people who have had exotic legaly put on licence by npws after the amnestys. this may upset people but you can get them legaly if you realy want them.

 

[Dicco]

Basketcase, as has been stated countless times making them legal would increase the numbers enormously, so the chances of them establishing in the wild will be much greater.

There are many who have no idea they are legal, making it well known would stop those not intending to break the law doing so.

Better policing would discourage a lot of petty keepers as well as some bigger ones.

Greater public awareness and better policing co-inciding with a proper amnesty - not like the porly done previous one - would help to reduce numbers and the continued public awareness and policing would also help reduce numbers.

If it's all made legal then what the hell is that acomplishing? Nothing but increasing the risks to our already fragile and battered environment and keeping a few people happy.

 

[AntaresiaLady]

I can't believe all the hype! here in WA we are limited in what we can keep on our licenses- 41 Species. And thats frogs,snakes, lizards (inc. geckos) and monitors. Much less that NSW huh? We have some amazing creatures here in our own country- don't be greedy! As much as I would love one of those Cape Dwarf Chameleons....I would never own one- because I don't believe that exotic species should be allowed.
'Rant Hat ON'
And one reason I oppose the introduction of laws to keep 'exotics' is that although the species may not 'compete' as such with native animals if they escape, I don't feel that it should be allowed as the introduction of non-native species should be kept to a minimum.

And yes, there is currently quite a few species here that were introduced that flourished. The thing we need to remember- is take away an animal from its environment, and you take it away from its natural enemy. Everything is in the food chain- and if you take out something, and stuff it where there is no natural predator above it- you run the risk of that species running riot.
I mean personally, even as a human- we have quite a few things out there that can easily kill us- and I don't fancy the addition of more killers...and if you allowed exotic species you would undoubtedly end up with people wanting to keep 'animals' that can kill.

We should try to NOT make the mistakes our forefathers did. Until we control the exotics that live here now- we shouldn't allow the keeping of more exotics legal.

And yes, there will always be people who keep illegally, and I believe that as a registered keeper, if I know someone has snakes illegally, or is keeping illegal exotics- then I should do something about it. The more registered keepers that turn the other cheek- the less their license means. Its the same as if I knew someone was keeping animals in a way that was of detriment to the animals heath and wellbeing- I would report them. We need to be responsible animal keepers, and help protect our beautiful country.
We can't rely on the government to do it all for us- we have to take some of the initiative.
'Rant hat OFF'

 

[Hickson]

i no of 3 people who have had exotic legaly put on licence by npws after the amnestys. this may upset people but you can get them legaly if you realy want them.

NPWS in NSW cannot issue new exotic licenses. If you have an Exotic license granted under the 1997 amnesty and you let it lapse, you cannot get it renewed.

Dicco: I'd be interested to know why you think the 2004 amnesty was poorly run. Brochures were sent out to licensed keepers, Herp Societies were made aware of it, and the media was advised. The fact that the newspapers buried the story on page 17 and the TV news put it after the first break (or dropped it entirely) is more an indictment on the jounalistic world's opinion on the importance of the amnesty.



Hix

 

[Tristis]

hix if you aquire the animal legaly it can be done.you can have exotics on a display license you just have to fill out all the paper work.

 

[reptililian]

keeping ilegaly

If it exists then you can get it $$$$$$ i have heard from a reliable source about monkeys,baby tiger cubs and just about every herp you can imagine.

My question is about the proper medical care of these animals when they need it, if you show up at the vets with a sick iguana, can they dob you in or are vets bound like doctors are?

I was of the belief that vets were not allowed to treat an exotic reptile, that they were required by law to refuse treatment.

 

[moosenoose]

Ok the reason that they are banned is because they are afraid of the having diseases rite?

Wrong!! Rite is spelt RIGHT! Right! :wink: :lol:

 

[soulweaver]

if you talk to vets, they will say off record that they arn't supposed to treat them, but in their own hearts how can they refuse to help the injured.

ppl in melb would know of the doc i talk about.

 

[reptililian]

He/she helps you out whenever your red eared slider is sick?

 

[soulweaver]

he/she has shown me x-rays of red eared sliders.

they put them down as long neck turtles on the books.