Legal trading of wild caught reptiles

Discussion in 'Australian Snakes' started by mje772003, Mar 29, 2014.

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  1. mje772003

    mje772003 Guest

    which states are you allowed to catch wild animals?
     
  2. Snowman

    Snowman Guest

    Don't know the rules of the other states, but WA allows wild taking of reptiles on the keepers list if you hold a takers license. The takers license is $1000 per year.
     
  3. mje772003

    mje772003 Guest

    ouch that is a hefty price for free range animals
     
  4. Beans

    Beans Guest

    I don't like taking animals from the wild. Just go out and buy one from a breeder, why take from the wild

    Seems selfish to me. : /
     
  5. Lawra

    Lawra Come here Squishy! Subscriber

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    [MENTION=38897]Beans[/MENTION] how do you think breeders initially acquired their reptiles? Might I suggest doing a quick search on WA rules & regs, it will help you see that [MENTION=16366]Snowman[/MENTION]'s actions are no more selfish than one who keeps captive bred reptiles.

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  6. Beans

    Beans Guest

    Yes Lawra. I am aware that's how we initially got them but captive bred were, well captive bred they were never in the wild. Wild ones however were. So taking them from their nice environment and stuffing it into a tank for personal gain is selfish. Anyway I won't hijack this thread anymore. Continue with the pretty olives!

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  7. andynic07

    andynic07 Very Well-Known Member

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    Northern Territory allows wild animals to be caught and sold but I am not sure of the rules around it. Can I digress and ask you one question [MENTION=38897]Beans[/MENTION] , if there is a species such as the oenpelli python that does not exist in captive populations are you against this being caught and populated in captive collections?
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2014
  8. Beans

    Beans Guest

    Don't give me ultimatums. I think it's wrong and that's just how I feel.

    Sorry I said anything.
     
  9. Stevo2

    Stevo2 Well-Known Member

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    I think if it's an already established species in captivity then there's no need to put pressure on wild populations. I'm with Beans on this one.
     
  10. Senator358

    Senator358 Well-Known Member

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    Tasmania allows collecting from the wild as they do not allow importing/ exporting of any species. You can have up to six of each allowed species which includes copperheads, tigers, and white lips. No reptiles can be sold though and any excess must be returned to the place of collection.
     
  11. Sean_L

    Sean_L Not so new Member

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    Let me add food for thought here. While I too dont necessarily agree with taking wild animals from their habitat, have a think about the following examples;

    In-breeding of the same genetic stock, to the point where the animal is adversly affected, or at the very least is no longer a representative of the wild animal, merely a diluted, mutated and selectively created 'version' of the original.
    Starting again, or at least reinvigorating the genetic lines of these animals surley has positives accossiated with it. At the very furthest end of the scale, when these species eventually become endangered, which they ALL INEVITIABLY WILL, then the capitve populations that are some of the few remants of the species will be comparatively far from the wild animal and in my opinion, far from capable of repopulating in the wild because of their captive flaws.

    and

    Small populations of certain localised races or even whole species in the wild that are especially vulnerable to extinction. Some of these species and races have only been recently discovered and so are unlikely to have a foothold in captive populations. What Im saying is WHEN THEYRE GONE, THEYRE GONE. Unless we (preferably purists) have captive representatives. These need to be caught from the wild.

    Like I said, I dont think everyone should be able to just go out and catch wild reptiles on a whim. But in my opinion, there are reasons to do so, in special circumstances.
     
  12. Beans

    Beans Guest


    So maybe you could just take the snake breed that snake to some females to introduce new blood. Then let it go. I wouldnt see a problem with that.

    But keeping it and not letting it go, I don't agree with that.
     
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  13. Sean_L

    Sean_L Not so new Member

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    Im not sure how that particular example would work. If you already have members of the species, theres nothing stopping some one from releasing a captive bred animal and keeping the wild caught in its place.
    Not to mention the possibility of releasing diseases, etc back into wild populations where they mightn't be present.
    But, i dont know, maybe its a possibility.
     
  14. AUSHERP

    AUSHERP Well-Known Member

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    Millions of fish (marine and fresh water) are collected every year for the aquarium trade.
    Collecting reptiles from the wild is the purest and cleanest way to ensure animals are locale specific and of a trusted lineage (mother nature)
    There is obviously pros and cons for both sides of the argument but at the end of the day it does put pressure on wild populations already pushed to the edge by our constant expansion.
    I am a big fan of controlled projects such as the RSP.

    The general public could not be trusted with such a responsibility.
     
  15. Snowman

    Snowman Guest

    It's hilarious that the hobby as got to the stage where people can keep reptiles, yet have no idea about wild specimens let alone regularly observe them in the wild.
    Most states that have established pet stock don't allow wild taking. However the original stock was obviously most certainly wild caught.
    WA and Tasmania do not allow pythons or some reptiles to be imported. So the taking is really to set up captive stock for the pet trade.

    It is always disturbing to me the amount of emotion and I guess anthropomorphic views of some of our less experienced and educated members. I understand these views are well meant, but they are not factual or scientific and add nothing of value.

    I keep and and breed wild caught and captive bred specimens. I watch them closely and can tell you there is very little difference in behavior. This no doubt is mostly attributed to the snakes evolving to be such basic creatures which have incredible instinct. If their needs are met, then I can't see how a wild caught specimen being kept could be viewed as cruel. Snakes do not go for walks and admire the scenery. They are instinct driven to find food and water, breeding season to find mates.

    People who have zero experience keeping wild caught should not comment at all. They have no experience in this field and no idea what they are talking about. Only those who have kept both wild and captive can tell you the differences.

    Im grateful for the privilege to keep locale specific wild caught. Pure specimens that do not have mixed genes from other areas. Most people breed the same species or sub species from different areas. Once you have a mixed locale anything pure is gone. It doesn't make much different to how much you love your pet. But for some it's interesting and local specific is quite a rare trait to have. A specimen in its natural form that hasn't had mixed genetics for thousands of years. A pure product of evolution.

    Even with things like wheatbelt etc. These places are huge and the isolated populations vary depending where in the wheatbelt the original specimens were collected.

    It has been proven that wild taking is limited and has little impact on existing populations. The most common wild specimens taken in WA were pythons. None of these species are under threat. And the only areas that they have been is the places that were cleared for development. For the most part people want captive bred, a hatchie or at least a specimen that hasn't got the scars and look of a wild caught. (Though some wild caught are in pristine condition). My BHP's are captive bred. I had no interest in locale specific BHP's.

    Anyway. That's my experience with wild caught.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Because there are no breeders to get them from. You cannot get a captive bred olive etc in WA. One day you will be able to, but for now it's wild taking to get breeding stock.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 12, 2014
  16. Sean_L

    Sean_L Not so new Member

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    I agree, basically, with Snowmans (little more than) philosophical thoughts above.

    However I also suggest that one musnt assume they know anything about someone else's experience level, based on, nothing.

    I have kept wild and captive animals over the last 15 years and spent extensive time observing both during this time. There is a difference.


    And as AUSHERP said, the general public cannot be trusted to responsibly collect wildlife.
     
  17. Snowman

    Snowman Guest

    Can you elaborate on the differences? I'll agree there are some subtle differences. But for the most part a captive bred that has never been handled behaves quite similarly.
    Wild caught can take a bit of time to move to dead rodents. But areas where rats and mice are abundant they take them readily.
    Im lucky to know people who have been wild breeding and doing studies for decades. The takers license isn't just given to anyone. You have to be interviewed capable of identification at least and also you can only collect on private property. If you don't know any land owners where the species are found then you have no chance of being able to get any wild caught stock. It's not as simple as just getting a license and catching whatever you can find.
     
  18. andynic07

    andynic07 Very Well-Known Member

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    I have had a play with some wild caught mulga's and compared to captive bred are very jumpy and nervous, I guess a captive bred one could be the same if it wasn't handled but the fact is they are so I would list it as a difference. They seem to eat fine and act in he same manor as captive snakes though. Hopefully these will be bred this year and I will get to see this.


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  19. Snowman

    Snowman Guest

    I don't consider defensive vs tolerant to be a difference. I can see why some
    would. But to me it's just conditioning. When left to their own devices they tend to act the same. Though some will hide for a period in the beginning.

    My my own wild caught keeping experience is limited to carpets, olives, brown tree snakes, stimi's.
     
  20. andynic07

    andynic07 Very Well-Known Member

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    I think young mulga's very often are assist fed to start so captive bred snakes are introduced to people straight away. I am classing this as a difference because that can be the only differences between the two behavioural. They both eat , poo and shed as a must do thing so can't see what else could be different?


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