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0_missy_0

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Lately I've come to realise just how many people really are keeping herps illegally, both exotics and natives. First of all, a few months back, I had a guy come over to buy some fish, and I was talking about getting into the reptile scene, and at that moment he offered me a hatchling boa. Now if he hadn't just bought $700 worth of my fish I would have given him a boot in the @$$ right there and then.

Then about two months later a friend of mine was telling me about how he had been keeping snakes for the past year. When I asked what types, he told me diamond pythons, taipans, browns and adders. Turns out this guy DOES have a license, apparently he just couldn't be bothered to wait the extra few years to upgrade:xThis one REALLY pee'd me off 'cause I would LOVE a death adder, but I, as well as many people, have to wait patiently until I can upgrade in later years, while this guy is off keeping vens in his first year!

Another friend of mine, who owns a young stimmie, came over the other night to see my herps and asked to see my license 'cause he'd never seen one before. Well, this guy doesn't have a license. Are people really stingy enough not to be able to fork out the $60 every two years?

Yet another friend (of the family's) came over the other night to see my python 'cause he's getting one himself. The first thing that came to mind was that he was going to get something exotic, and I was right, he planned to get a corn snake. Again, I was really pee'd off at this because corn snakes are one of my all time favourite snakes, and the first snake I had ever held (at a zoo). He told me his friend is breeding them, and what amazed me most is that the friend found the adults in his own backyard:?Not too sure where he lives, but I know he's somewhere in suburban Sydney. It amazes me because I didn't know corns were adaptive and prolific enough to get to the stage where they are invading suburban areas...
It's sad to know that I have more friends keeping herps illegally than friends keeping them legally! Knowing so many people who keep illegally, it's hard not to report them, but because most are good friends I don't know what to do other than talk them out of it (which doesn't seem to work anyway):?

Onto the point, this family friend was explaining how corns will soon become legal because there are just so many of them already in the wild in Aus.
I believe that, if they do become legalized, that will be the reason. But there's still reasons NOT to legalize them, such as if one exotic becomes legal, it'll encourage people to bring in more exotics and work on making them become legal as well, because if it happened with corns, it can happen with others, which is what makes it hard for me to believe that corns will soon become legal to own.
So I want to hear other peoples' opinions/facts on this, 'cause, if I can help it, I want to try get this family friend to steer clear of exotics, because he's really a good guy and I'd hate for him to get the wrong information on something like this... Any insight appreciated.

Apologies for the massive story:p
 
i had someone ask me/my GF about ways to euthanise animals (my GF does vet sci)
as he had a friend with 2 very large boas that he thought the DSE had found out about
 
Change the context of your above story so that it reads 'cocaine' instead of 'exotic herps' and see if the decision is still difficult. ;)

If we didn't have laws then society would be quite different. One of the downsides is that if there is a law about something then people will break it regardless of the consequences.

Personally I am all for exotics staying illegal and will report anyone who keeps them.
 
Change the context of your above story so that it reads 'cocaine' instead of 'exotic herps' and see if the decision is still difficult. ;)

If we didn't have laws then society would be quite different. One of the downsides is that if there is a law about something then people will break it regardless of the consequences.

Personally I am all for exotics staying illegal and will report anyone who keeps them.

Good point.

I'm also for keeping exotics illegal, it's hard to resist a corn but I can do it:)So, what should I do about the friends that are keeping/want to keep exotics? Reporting them would be betrayal, they'd lose all trust in me, but I can't do NOTHING about it...:?
And talking to this guy that wants a corn will probably do nothing...
 
I too am pretty surprised at the offerings of corns and boas considering the small postion of people i know with reptiles. i think that the replile owning world would be an interesting place to question about ownership of exotics considering so much of the demographic is involved in someway with conservation.
 
Ultimately the decision about what to do is that which will sit best with your own conscience. I personally would report them but I understand how its difficult to do that at times. Sorry but I'm not much help.
 
This field is an interesting one, and can be extraporlated to other topical subjects.

I feel pretty passionate about the exotic issue simply because it is up my field of study.


Firstly.... the herp "hobby/ industry" is starting to see a major influx of new people to the field. An issue though is the fact that the majority of people that are doing this are;
A) interested for probably not the best reasons, or and most likely
B) dont have the respect and knowledge for the animal.

The first point, most people want a snake etc, due to WOW value, which is probably not the best reason.
Secondly, so many people, (of which some questions on this site even point towards this) dont appear to have adequate knowledge for the animals they want or keep, let alone the wider ecological understanding that should be understood.


In this thread, a couple of times it has been metioned that people dont want to "dob" their friends in for having an exotic species. But to me, a real friend would probably listen to the person and then understand that though you are a friend, it is your ecological duty as a person of Australia to ensure that the species of Australia are maintained. As mentioned, change the topic to Cocaine. Lets say your friend was dealing cocaine, would this make you say something.

Now of course someone is reading this and going, "thats different" blah blah blah.
No, it is very similar. The cost of trying to control Cane toads, is getting really out of hand.
The cost of trying to contain rabbits is also out of hand.
They have in the last few years found foxes in Tasmania, So now we are stareing at the possible extinction of the Devil, through fox and other reasons.
Look at the costs associated with containment, erradication, general damage of hard hooved animals through out australia.
European Carp, trout etc etc, have caused major damage to our water ways.
Even bloody starfish are causing problems.


So yeah it is the same. Though you may not see the direct effect, the costs are huge. Money devoted to these aforementioned items comes from the budget, and the budget comes from our tax dollars.


With regards to legalisation of exotics. I firmly believe that the penalties need to increase. I have been talking with Environment ACT and the RSPCA on these matters regarding legislation for severe penalties.

Part of the issue is that the penalties handed down arent enough to deter people, and the other side is that the penalties just arent enough in other instances.

The reason why people continue to get away with black market animals regardless whether they be natives on fake licences or exotics, is not enough people are doing anything about it.

Simple fact of the matter is that the Australian Fauna have evolved to be the way they are due to the environment that they live in. Throwing another competitor into the mix, totally changes everything.

Lets just look at the Everglades.

Personally i would have no problem in letting the right people know. I would give my friend a chance to have the animal put down, or taken to a Zoo etc. but then i would be telling the authorities to sort it out.

Allowing your friends to have them, just says that you approve of it. Actions always speak louder than words.
Explain to them why it is wrong. it is the ecology of the country.

I dont think that the law will ever change in Australia to allow exotics into private collections. It just wont happen, there are too many ecological impacts to consider.

If anyone remembers the shop that was near cambletown a few years back. It got shut down for having exotics etc. The owner was Mani Buckly. I wonder if anyone knows this shop.
 
Regarding the fines/punishment, They should increase the fines substantially this will in turn provide more money to enforce the law and any excess money should be put into conservation projects.
Or anyone found with exotics must go collect 100,000 cane toads as punishment that will take a while.
 
I'd like to think that corns wouldn't become so common that they get legalized, but is the Asian House Gecko native to Australia? I've heard that they were an introduced species, now legal to keep.

Just a (slightly disturbing) thought.
 
Why don't you pm their names to someone in Sydney on this site and ask if they can say something to the relevant NSW authority? I know it's still 'betraying' your friends, but if there's a chance fines etc are increasing, maybe it's better to sort them out now instead of waiting til they tell someone else who's not so forgiving? If you let someone else do it, then your names not associated and you can honestly say you've never heard of the person (well real name anyway!) I know it sounds sneaky but i believe your friends need to see exactly what they're dealing with. way bigger than what they obviously expect.
 
Rennie raises a good point, if AHGs became legal, is there not a possibility for corns to also become legal?

And thanks for your suggestions I think I'll do what Slothhead suggested, I'll tell them they have a chance to get rid of their animals otherwise I'll report them. At least this way I wouldn't be doing it behind their backs..
 
the thing that makes aussie herps great is that you cant find them anywhere els in the world imo exotics should never become legal to keep in aust theres to much of a risk
 
I know its bad for the ecology of australia blah blah blah but dobbing in a friend is a bit drastic, personally i would never do it. 1 person owning an exotic snake is not going to harm anyone and i believe a friendship is much more valuable than a snake. And if it was cocaine i would be a very good friend to that person :)
 
Rennie raises a good point, if AHGs became legal, is there not a possibility for corns to also become legal?
An interesting point, but I don't think corn snakes will be legalised with that argument simply for the reason that Asian House Geckos are found and probably breeding in a 'wild situation' where as the majority of corn snakes are kept in illegal private captive collections. I know there are reports of wild corns etc here in Australia, how many and in what population density I'm unsure, but (imo) it would not be anywhere near the population of 'wild' asian house geckos.
 
I know its bad for the ecology of australia blah blah blah but dobbing in a friend is a bit drastic, personally i would never do it. 1 person owning an exotic snake is not going to harm anyone and i believe a friendship is much more valuable than a snake. And if it was cocaine i would be a very good friend to that person :)

That explains why you have the attitude towards illegal snakes like you do. If you read the post she mentions there is more then one person and if everybody who own herps took your approach then there would be thousands and thousands of friends keeping illegal herps.
 
I cant believe people thinking about dobbing someone in for keeping reptiles illegally. If you wanna be a copper, join the police force. Otherwise, mind your own business.
 
Krusty, your are ok cause you have corn woma hybrids.


That old statement, ONE PERSON OWNING AN EXOTIC IS NOT GOIN TO HARM ANYONE, spoke with the true naivety of someone that doenst actually respect what we have, let alone the long term prospects of the consequences.

But yet the statement is so wrong.

ONE person owning one is called DEMAND. As demand increases so does supply.
When supply outstrips that demand, the prices simply drop until the demand creeps back in. So thouugh it may just start with one, it never stops at one.

Sure freinds are important, but this doesnt mean that they have the right to encroach on 60 million years of evolution through selfish actions .


Oh, and BIG RYANO... that is really a stupid and moot comment. With that sort of thinking, all you are saying is that, if your house was on fire, or being broken into by someone, you would rather your neighbours to stand around and just go, "O well, better mind my own business, i wont call the right people, its none of my business"
Stop flexing your ignorance
 
Honestly, if they are silly enough to go around blurting it out to whoever they feel like - fool them, they deserve to get caught. If they have told you they have probably told others also. I'm sure if I had one, I wouldn't be announcing it.
 
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