Legalization of corns??

[SlothHead]

Ryano, i notice that you say "Murder without reason", thus you are saying that it is ok to murder so long as you have a reason????.... Dont know where you were brought up if thats the case.

Maybe you would prefer to live in anarchy...

Throwing the ol hands up in the air and saying, No its too big i cant do anything about it, is not going to remedy the situation either. You sound like someone who has lost faith in goverment, someone that did not receive justice through the law.

If the "big names" of the australian herp industry are keeping these species, then why should they be exempt from pool.

I understand what you are saying with regards to "not the way you were brought up". But by not doing anything, though you say that you are against exotics, is showing you are for them via proxy.

Yes it is a damn hard place to be. And certainly one person isnt going to make much of a difference. However, education of the remifications, and people being aware and being prepared to take action will certainly make it less viable to bring these species in, or for that matter, our native species out.

Ryano, i am probably not that dissimilar from you in terms of keeping to yourself and out of anyone elses business. But it does become my business when other peoples actions have negative externalities upon me, either directly or indirectly.

I certainly dont want my private collection wiped out through some new exotic desease.
I certainly dont want to hear the latest report saying that Aspidites ramsayi is now classified as extinct
I certainly dont want to go for a walk with the dog or whatever to turn around and see a 20ft anaconda chewing down. (It would be cool in some ways)

I think that by not doing anything, you are just supporting that it is happening. And the consequences of this happening is just too great. We have stuffed enough with problematic species in the past

 

[SlothHead]

The majority of people who should know agree that OPMV was here from the start. Certainly some different strains have probably been imported here over the years, but OPMV has always been here in one form or another. It's not a new thing.

Yeah this is a bit of a tall one, who are the "PEOPLE THAT SHOULD KNOW"
I personally have never read a journal article suggesting that this is the case.

Current literature still firmly states that IBD and OPMV are both exotic viruses.
it is very hard for OPMV to be here from the start... Like when 60 million years ago
20 million year when

Australia has been alone for a long time, therefore any natural occuring OPMV would have been erased over this period. Otherwise we wouldnt have the current populations. They would be all gone .

 

[BIG RYANO]

I do agree with most of your comments SlothHead, except about OPMV. It's been good sparring with you, but i'm getting tired. Regards

 

[SlothHead]

yeah i think Final destination 3 is on pay tv in a sec
so might have to go and watch that

 

[SnowAngel]

SlothHead... Have you stopped to think that being a supplier of reptile accessories, that you yourself are helping these people keep exotics alive in this country and you dont even know it. Just something for you to think about...
I dont agree with exotics but i also dont believe in dobbing in your friends, but hey thats just my opinion

 

[mcloughlin2]

Snowangel,

If he didn't supply those accessories how would we keep natives as pets?

 

[Southside Morelia]

This field is an interesting one, and can be extraporlated to other topical subjects.

I feel pretty passionate about the exotic issue simply because it is up my field of study.


Firstly.... the herp "hobby/ industry" is starting to see a major influx of new people to the field. An issue though is the fact that the majority of people that are doing this are;
A) interested for probably not the best reasons, or and most likely
B) dont have the respect and knowledge for the animal.

The first point, most people want a snake etc, due to WOW value, which is probably not the best reason.
Secondly, so many people, (of which some questions on this site even point towards this) dont appear to have adequate knowledge for the animals they want or keep, let alone the wider ecological understanding that should be understood.


In this thread, a couple of times it has been metioned that people dont want to "dob" their friends in for having an exotic species. But to me, a real friend would probably listen to the person and then understand that though you are a friend, it is your ecological duty as a person of Australia to ensure that the species of Australia are maintained. As mentioned, change the topic to Cocaine. Lets say your friend was dealing cocaine, would this make you say something.

Now of course someone is reading this and going, "thats different" blah blah blah.
No, it is very similar. The cost of trying to control Cane toads, is getting really out of hand.
The cost of trying to contain rabbits is also out of hand.
They have in the last few years found foxes in Tasmania, So now we are stareing at the possible extinction of the Devil, through fox and other reasons.
Look at the costs associated with containment, erradication, general damage of hard hooved animals through out australia.
European Carp, trout etc etc, have caused major damage to our water ways.
Even bloody starfish are causing problems.


So yeah it is the same. Though you may not see the direct effect, the costs are huge. Money devoted to these aforementioned items comes from the budget, and the budget comes from our tax dollars.


With regards to legalisation of exotics. I firmly believe that the penalties need to increase. I have been talking with Environment ACT and the RSPCA on these matters regarding legislation for severe penalties.

Part of the issue is that the penalties handed down arent enough to deter people, and the other side is that the penalties just arent enough in other instances.

The reason why people continue to get away with black market animals regardless whether they be natives on fake licences or exotics, is not enough people are doing anything about it.

Simple fact of the matter is that the Australian Fauna have evolved to be the way they are due to the environment that they live in. Throwing another competitor into the mix, totally changes everything.

Lets just look at the Everglades.

Personally i would have no problem in letting the right people know. I would give my friend a chance to have the animal put down, or taken to a Zoo etc. but then i would be telling the authorities to sort it out.

Allowing your friends to have them, just says that you approve of it. Actions always speak louder than words.
Explain to them why it is wrong. it is the ecology of the country.

I dont think that the law will ever change in Australia to allow exotics into private collections. It just wont happen, there are too many ecological impacts to consider.

If anyone remembers the shop that was near cambletown a few years back. It got shut down for having exotics etc. The owner was Mani Buckly. I wonder if anyone knows this shop.

Whatever Eienstein..... What credentials do you have to back up your statements?
You obviously are not connected with the wider herp community and in in touch with what is actually going on! Yes, there needs to be constraints, but there also has to be some management from the Authorities, whether it to your liking or not! Dobbing in your friend is a joke and your a [deleted] for even of thinking it, don't undercut the genuine sponsor /seller from trying tom earn a buck on this site....
My opinion only!!!!!!

 

[bouncn]

euthanase the cornsnakes people only like them cause there pretty
i think there gay

you're right.

they are so gay.

and they're named after a vegetable

 

[GrumpyTheSnake]

lol @ Knob head Scott......LOLOLOLOL

And to you Mclouglin2..... I don't think snow angel was saying that he shouldn't supply these items, . I think she was just trying to say that these people are all around us... most of us have had dealings with them and don't even know it.!! You just never know who is keeping what.

 

[SnowAngel]

mcloughlin... I understand that but what i'm saying is he is so against exotics but i would bet on it that more than half the people he sells are buying equipment to house and care for exotics...

 

[FAY]

how can you compare a boa to a cane toad?

Paul, have you read anything about the Burmese python and the effects it is having in the Florida Everglades.??

 

[Southside Morelia]

This subject has be done to death..... BORING.
We are certainly a more educated mob that can have better conversations about constructive issues we all face day to day with dealing with the welfare of our pets/income to be debating about regurgitated crap that we often get infractions about.
This is a site for knowledge for the majority not for petty arguments for ill informed keyboard machos.....

 

[SlothHead]

SCM1, thanks for the complement, but Einstein was a physicist champ, not an ecologist. Mate if you dont want to read the thread thats cool, but coming on slagging other people because they have their say, get over your self. You actually havent provided anything constructive but thats cool too.

Credentials... well i dont have to prove anything to anyone, see it doesnt take a genius to read a couple of journals to find the information that i stated, so you so where is my back up, well my back up is pretty much any journal based on fox and quoll population statistics, cane toad damage, Everglades hmmmm, so who is the one out of touch

Then the ol good one,

undercut the genuine sponsor /seller from trying tom earn a buck on this site....

Genuine sponsor, didnt know there was a category.
I figured we just paid our fees to the site and that was it.

not that i really can see what that is supposed to mean but hey, i am no Einstein.
Your right though, i have no idea about the Herp community

 

[SlothHead]

Snowangel,

I understand what you are saying, but should the majority suffer for the actions of a few.

We also donate a percentage of profits to the RSPA in order to combat or loby against many of these activities.

 

[prealongus]

I dont think dobbing in friends will do anything but lose good friends. If people understand the punishments involved (jail very unlikely) then its up to them, sooner or later these things have a habit of coming under the authorities attention. I wouldnt keep non natives, they dont appeal to me but I accept that they appeal to others in the same way as why people only keep pythons or vens. We as reptile keepers, are also an ecological problem. How extreme do want to go? We let purposely or not doesnt matter, species go where they are not suppose to be ie pythons fround in melb etc etc. If people are so truly passionate about ecological issues only keep species that occur in your own area. I liken the desire of keepers to exotics to that of keepers wanting animals that dont occur locally. Like it or not we all are a threat to our local ecological. If we increase penlties in all likely more people are going to dump exotics not destory them.
It would be ironic if revenue raised through penlties went to organisations like RSPCA who in turn used it to pressure gov to totaly ban keeping of reptiles.

 

[mysnakesau]

With all due respect paul. Your a fool. Go do some research on the matter. Everyone thought cane toads were a perfect solution to their problems when they were first introduced. Now look what has happened......

My point exactly

 

[Radar]

Couple of points:
[Comment deleted]
-Slothhead knows what he is talking about on this one (saves me re-iterating his points for the illiterate)
-Is it Hawaii the the tree snakes are totally decimating? can't remember which island. Add that to the florida everglades
-The few people who choose to keep exotics are endangering the what EVERY OTHER Australian holds so dear.....and as such it is EVER OTHER AUSTRALIANS DUTY to do what we can to stop them being so reckless. If this means 'dobbing' on friends, sit down and have a seroius think about your age. Are you still 7 years old or what? (no offence if you are, lol)

If you are gonna break the law on an issue like this, the legal implications ARE THE LEAST OF YOUR WORRIES, especially when I find out who you are. And I bet that goes for a few others around here.

 

[cris]

My dear SlothHead, IMO the only acceptable reasons for giving someone up are : Abusing kids or women, terrorism, bashing old people, selling hard drugs to kids,breaking into a neighbors house or murder without a real good reason.

With the exception of terrorism all of those things are virtually insignificant to virtually everyone, (although obviously very unpleasnt for the victims). Keeping and especially breeding and importing potential invasive exotic species put the entire ecosystem at risk and that effects alot of ppl. That to me is much worse (not to all those things arnt really bad).

 

[JJS.]

The idea of corns already being prolific in the australian wild is more reason not to legalise as it will only add to the destruction of our native animals. You want exotics, you may do the right thing, but others won't. It's best for them to be illegal. I'm sure people do drugs, etc but are relatively safe, etc. Does that mean they should be legalised? It will only blow the problem out of proportion in both instances.

 

[Tatelina]

Good point.
I'm also for keeping exotics illegal, it's hard to resist a corn but I can do itSo, what should I do about the friends that are keeping/want to keep exotics? Reporting them would be betrayal, they'd lose all trust in me, but I can't do NOTHING about it...:?
And talking to this guy that wants a corn will probably do nothing...

Heh..give me their names and I'll report them.