Legalization of corns??

[Midol]

You really shouldn't donate to the RSPCA. Worthless organisation who wastes tens of thousands of dollars on useless campaigns. That's just my opinion though. You're donations are just funding the RSPCAs BSL push which bans large dogs.

Anyway, exotics are bad, mmmkay?

 

[Radar]

Midol: agreed
I know at least 2 RSPCA workers responsible for introducing cats into feral proof enclosures designed for the rehabilitation of native animals (bilbies, etc). I know its not representive, but sort of put me off giving them my money

 

[cement]

Midol: agreed
I know at least 2 RSPCA workers responsible for introducing cats into feral proof enclosures designed for the rehabilitation of native animals (bilbies, etc). I know its not representive, but sort of put me off giving them my money

WHAT!!!! :evil: I hope you buried them, Red.

I am feral hater NO 1, I don't want cane toads for pets. Cats, well most of you know my feeling here. Same with pigs, goats, rabbits, foxes. THIS PLACE IS NOT ENGLAND.

Whats the problem with killing exotic snakes, you kill rats and mice to feed your snakes. I even feed live crickets to my dragon. Everyone thinks its funny whatching that.

Sometimes you end up in the wrong place at the wrong time.Ferals beware.

You people who don't have the balls to look after this land aren't worth two bob.

Kill all the ferals and exotics and feed the natives with them I say :lol:

 

[Radar]

WHAT!!!! :evil: I hope you buried them, Red.

I am feral hater NO 1, I don't want cane toads for pets. Cats, well most of you know my feeling here. Same with pigs, goats, rabbits, foxes. THIS PLACE IS NOT ENGLAND.

Whats the problem with killing exotic snakes, you kill rats and mice to feed your snakes. I even feed live crickets to my dragon. Everyone thinks its funny whatching that.

Sometimes you end up in the wrong place at the wrong time.Ferals beware.

You people who don't have the balls to look after this land aren't worth two bob.

Kill all the ferals and exotics and feed the natives with them I say :lol:

Not quite....but they got the message.....needless to say the cats were tracked down and shot pretty fast.

You and me are probably rivals for that No. 1 position . Going piggin' tonight, truth be told.
Im all for animal rights and 100% commited to ensureing animals (even ferals) do not suffer at the hands of idiots, but Im also 100% commited to the protection of Australian fauna (and flora) and spend just about all of my spare time hunting one introduced species or another.

Speaking of burying people, got any idea who is responsible for foxes in Tassie?

 

[Midol]

Ditto, I support the removal of feral (I detest people who see a cat/dog WITH a collar and shoot it even though capturing it would be just as simple) animals if done humanely.

Exotic snakes are considered feral to me.

 

[Radar]

Yeah, got to put peoples pets first, even though some people clearly dont even do that for their own animals.

As far as I can tell there is NO reason good enough to allow the legalisation of exotic snakes. We've already done it with other animals like dogs/cats/rabbits/ferrets/etc, and created endless problems. Time to learn from past mistakes, me thinks.....

 

[BIG RYANO]

How extreme do want to go? We let purposely or not doesnt matter, species go where they are not suppose to be ie pythons fround in melb etc etc. If people are so truly passionate about ecological issues only keep species that occur in your own area. I liken the desire of keepers to exotics to that of keepers wanting animals that dont occur locally. Like it or not we all are a threat to our local ecological. If we increase penlties in all likely more people are going to dump exotics not destory them.
It would be ironic if revenue raised through penlties went to organisations like RSPCA who in turn used it to pressure gov to totaly ban keeping of reptiles.

There are some great points there Prealongus that many of us have never considered. For example, coastal carpets kept in Sydney are probably a bigger threat to the indigenous wildlife than corns are, due to interbreeding with diamonds. Some great points. If people are so passionate about these ecological issues, then perhaps they should practise what they preach and only keep species that are local to their area.

 

[Midol]

Rednut, definitely. Bringing in dogs and cats was a huge mistake. They are here now and the population (including me - dogs) are highly attatched to them. Legalising exotics would be a huge mistake.

Hey Ryano, care to offer some proof or just the basis as to why carpets in sydney are a threat to native wildlife? How does interbreeding with diamonds cause ecological problems?

 

[prealongus]

Midol, legalising exotics may way in time prove to be a mistake, but it would allow the gov to estimate population size and distributation of exotics to some degree. Escapees are more likely to be reported and problem areas more likely to be identified. A risk assessment can be done. At the moment the gov has no idea where/ or when a feral population is likely to be established (edited section: At the moment the gov usually only identifies a problem after the exotic has already established itself, and more resources have to be involved. If the gov knew where species were located they could be more specific in their control areas and measures, and exotic keepers in that area foot the bill). Im not in favour of exotics but even I know some control is better than none. I also have to highlight the point more likely as one can never be 100%.

As for your proof or just the basis as to why carpets in sydney are a threat to native wildlife? They most certainly are! The threat comes in the terms of genetic polluation. Everyone knows the the different geographic races of carpets can interbreed and in captivity this really isnt a problem from an ecological point of view (as captives "supposely" are isolated from wild specimens). The problem happens when your carpet (from a non local population) escapes from captivity and is exposed to the wild population. We dont need crosses in the wild. If you think oh this rarely happens you are dead wrong just ask snake removalists how many non local snakes they pick up. Last year in sydney I know of at least 20 coastal carpets collected from sydney as a result of escapees. Ask the department how many reptiles were registered as escapees, you will be surprised and shocked at the numbers. Maybe these figures itself prove we cant be trusted with exotics, but if you are going to agrue are along the lines of ecological issues then you shouldnt be half hearted about it and draw an imaginary line at the border of australia. You can cross all you want in captivity but wild population in my opinion should remain genetically prue.

 

[mrs_davo]

Why do people think that it is OK to BREAK THE LAW.
The LAWS are there for everybody to follow.... why do some people feel that they are the exception to the rule.
I am sorry but the LAW BREAKERS SHOULD be dobbed in regardless......
What gives these people the right to think that they are any better than the rest of us and that they are ABOVE the LAW......

 

[cris]

So explain the ecological impact of hybrid carpets in sydney?

Im not saying its good, but its nothing like allowing completely differant types of animals to establish populations. In some cases some natives in the wrong could be worse than some exotics but IMO it generally the other way around(a good example is banded grunters in the brisbane river, water dragons in melbourne etc.) compare these to the cats, foxes, pigs, goats, carp etc. and its just like a drop in the ocean.

 

[slip_phreak]

I think everyone needs to realise that buying/importing exotics funds terrorist activities all over the world like 9/11. There are links involved in breeding boa's, corn snakes and cham's in australia are clearly identifiable as source of funding for the bombings in london and bali. Okay i'll stop being a retard now..

Okay on a more serious note im still undecided on the whole exotics thing becasue there are points for and against, but some of which sort of cancel themselves out. For example, keeping exotics illegal means that when the sellers cant offload all their hatchies, they will get released into the wild which puts our balanced ecosystems under threat ( i have visions of SnakeRanch releasing hundreds of Rough Scaled Pythons into the carpark because they are expensive and people like me arent buying them becasue im so poor). On the other hand if exotics were not illegal to keep and were put on lic. sellers would be more inclined to hang onto the hatchies and sell them later on rather than dumping them, so in turn it wouldn't be a direct risk to the ecosystem (well apart from escapee's n stuff). OPMV is already here and its not an exotics only disease (yes it was brought here by importing exotics illegally but its here now so no good trying to solve the problem in hind sight), as your hatchie diamond you just bought could have it. Hypothetically it escapes from your gosford home, does it pose less of a threat to the local communities of diamonds living in the area because its a native to the area? Would the effect of the virus on natives be the same as having your corn or boa escape with OPMV into the wild and mix with the snakes there?
But im rambling so dont mind me. Personally i wouldnt mind keeping a Cham or maybe even a corn if they were legal but is it worth the risks to our wildlife keeping them illegaly? Personally i dont think so but i wouldnt be prepared to run off telling the fuzz my best friend bought himself a hatchy albino corn snake.

 

[Radar]

Prealongus, I agree with you 50:50
I do believe that genetic mixing between previously isolated and genetically differentiated populations can become a problem, and as hard as it may be to believe, have never kept a species that did not naturally occure in the region I lived in (not through choice, mind you, it just happened that way). Ive done advanced conservation genetics courses and understand the problems (although it is more of a problem for actual species conservation rather than ecosystem functioning, as hybrids between races will continue to have basically the same ecological niches and roles)

However, I don't think legalisation of corns (drugs are bad, mmmmkay?) is the way to gain greater control. People who have them will smell a rat and simply not register them. Take a look at the firearm situation. I know of many people who never registered their guns, handed them in, or sold them on when required to do so by the laws brought in after 1996. why? simply cause they knew they were backing themselves into a corner by letting the government know what they were doing (not because they are gun-runners intent on making a fast buck and destroying society as we know it). And on that note, they were right, because now firearms are so heavily regulated its not funny (not saying this is a bad thing, thats a whole other debate).

I know what you mean about the govt only identifying a problem when it is basically too late, but that is the reason we need to be keeping note of what is going on around us...and one of the reasons sites like this are so good. It comes down to everyone who in interested and knows enough to report anything unusual, etc (corn snakes in the local park, etc), otherwise the govt. will never notice anything.

 

[Radar]

I think everyone needs to realise that buying/importing exotics funds terrorist activities all over the world like 9/11. There are links involved in breeding boa's, corn snakes and cham's in australia are clearly identifiable as source of funding for the bombings in london and bali.

???? I NEVER KNEW!!!! SOMETHING MUST BE DONE!!!!!! Its so simple, of course...

 

[Recharge]

On the other hand if exotics were not illegal to keep and were put on lic. sellers would be more inclined to hang onto the hatchies and sell them later on rather than dumping them, so in turn it wouldn't be a direct risk to the ecosystem

If selfish so and so's didn't keep them against the law, there wouldn't be a problem at all. legalising exotics isn't going to help anything at all, it'll only make MORE problems.
its people KNOWING of others with exotics not dobbing them in that IS the problem.

 

[GSXR_Boy]

.....

 

[zulu]

re Legalization

Midol, legalising exotics may way in time prove to be a mistake, but it would allow the gov to estimate population size and distributation of exotics to some degree. Escapees are more likely to be reported and problem areas more likely to be identified. A risk assessment can be done. At the moment the gov has no idea where/ or when a feral population is likely to be established (edited section: At the moment the gov usually only identifies a problem after the exotic has already established itself, and more resources have to be involved. If the gov knew where species were located they could be more specific in their control areas and measures, and exotic keepers in that area foot the bill). Im not in favour of exotics but even I know some control is better than none. I also have to highlight the point more likely as one can never be 100%.
As for your proof or just the basis as to why carpets in sydney are a threat to native wildlife? They most certainly are! The threat comes in the terms of genetic polluation. Everyone knows the the different geographic races of carpets can interbreed and in captivity this really isnt a problem from an ecological point of view (as captives "supposely" are isolated from wild specimens). The problem happens when your carpet (from a non local population) escapes from captivity and is exposed to the wild population. We dont need crosses in the wild. If you think oh this rarely happens you are dead wrong just ask snake removalists how many non local snakes they pick up. Last year in sydney I know of at least 20 coastal carpets collected from sydney as a result of escapees. Ask the department how many reptiles were registered as escapees, you will be surprised and shocked at the numbers. Maybe these figures itself prove we cant be trusted with exotics, but if you are going to agrue are along the lines of ecological issues then you shouldnt be half hearted about it and draw an imaginary line at the border of australia. You can cross all you want in captivity but wild population in my opinion should remain genetically prue.

Yes praelongus the wild populations of various animals should remain genetically unaltered if possible,what happens in the pet industry should stay there.

 

[prealongus]

Prealongus, I agree with you 50:50
I do believe that genetic mixing between previously isolated and genetically differentiated populations can become a problem, and as hard as it may be to believe, have never kept a species that did not naturally occure in the region I lived in (not through choice, mind you, it just happened that way). Ive done advanced conservation genetics courses and understand the problems (although it is more of a problem for actual species conservation rather than ecosystem functioning, as hybrids between races will continue to have basically the same ecological niches and roles).

Rednut you are very right the same ecological niches and roles will be the same and in terms of ecosystem functioning. I was more refering to actual species conservation ( probably better termed genetic conservation).

As for exotics we are damned either way (legalised or total ban) people will always be prepared to go outside of the law to meet their interest. At the moment too many are prepared to do this and numbers of exotics will only increase despite more penlties, education, etc etc. Its a no win situation.

 

[crush the turtle]

i no a girl who works at a pet shop and doesnt have a lic but she has over 13 snakes, one of whitch is a red tailed boa!!, she also has 3 water dragons and a few blueys, and some birds that nedd lic

 

[noidea]

ok so without reading all of the posts i'm gonna add my 2 bob's worth. I look at it this way we all whinge and moan about hybrids, intergrades natural or not.
people are never satisfied with what they have in their own backyard( i personally have no desire to travel overseas when i haven't seen my own country). i look at all these woma x carpet etc and honestly i feel sorry for the poor buggers they just don't look right.
i'm glad it is illegal for us to purposely cross breed snakes and as for dobbing in mates, they are'nt mates if they expect you to keep secrets that can get u into heaps of trouble.
i hope you find an out come that suits you, but seriously think about our one of a kind ecosystem that no one in this world has before you consider letting an exotic enter your home or your friends, and in saying that i know its a catch 22 because of the fact that exotics are euthanised when found, maybe one day the authorities will get their act together and do a big search and sort out the herp trade once and for all before it does get too big, and that all the poor corn snakes and boas bred here for however long it has been won't be euthanised but quarantined and sent to a zoo or something to that effect to live out a happy life, because it isn't their fault some halfwit thought it was cool to keep them illegally. JMO