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DiVinyl

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Hi there, I'm Jo. This is my first post, about my first ever snake. I'm green as grass & am feeling a little clueless about a few things mostly feeding / shedding cycles & thought I'd ask you experts for your thoughts.

I bought this beautiful 8yo Vic Murray Darling girl on 4th November from a friend who couldn't keep her any longer. He'd had her since she was pencil-size. She had been kept in an enclosure 900x600x600 but she needed something bigger so she's now in a brand new 1800x600x600 so she can finally stretch out. The temp ranges from about 25-35. I've been feeding her XL rats and I thought I was getting a handle on recognising when she was hungry but now I'm not so sure.

Her previous owner fed her the day she came home with me, 4th November. I offered her a large rat on 19th Nov but no interest. She shed her skin on 29 Nov & ate a large rat on 30 Nov. Then she ate an XL rat on 18 Dec, 24 Dec, 28 Dec, 2 Jan, 6 Jan & 11 Jan. I thought woo hoo she's a rat eating machine! And I also wondered if all this frequent eating might soon lead to another shed? I've since offered her XL rats on 14th, 18th, 21st & just now, 28th Jan but after much tongue flicking & examination she declines! The one I offered her on 14th Jan she actually struck it but didn't grab on ..... as if to say Get this thing outta my face!

So ...... to avoid the tally of uneaten rats getting any bigger, can anyone please advise what's going on in her pretty head? She's active, spends time in lots of different spots in her new enclosure ...... do you think she's heading for another shed? I can't see any milkyness in her eyes.

Thanks for listening & I look forward to your replies!!


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I'd say you are feeding her way too frequently and she's simply had enough.....a large rat fortnightly is plenty for her....
 
A big feed like that on average every four days is too much. You may be better offering smaller feeds every seven days. It sounds like its going into shed. I have a Jungle Python that's almost 14 years of age. He is an old boy and is slowing down. He sheds after every second feed, and I feed him a medium rat fortnightly which is plenty for him.
 
I'd say you are feeding her way too frequently and she's simply had enough.....a large rat fortnightly is plenty for her....

Right! Thanks heaps. I thought she only ate when she was genuinely hungry. Didn't realise you can over feed! This'll save me a fortune lol


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A big feed like that on average every four days is too much. You may be better offering smaller feeds every seven days. It sounds like its going into shed. I have a Jungle Python that's almost 14 years of age. He is an old boy and is slowing down. He sheds after every second feed, and I feed him a medium rat fortnightly which is plenty for him.

Ok. Thanks heaps for the feedback ..... so your python sheds monthly? I've read so much stuff & it all differs slightly. I read that I should be offering her food that is about twice her diameter??

On another note .... I just took her outside in the sun on the grass. I hadn't mentioned this but I'd completely lost confidence in handling her since she bit my neighbour soon after I first brought her home. He said he was experienced & put his fist in front of her face & whammo! Anyway, I knew I had to try again (I handled her heaps at her previous home with no probs) & today she was goofing around the glass so I opened up the doors & she came out. I cleaned out her box, then took a deep breath & picked her up & put her around my neck. Phew!! I read elsewhere on this forum that there are no aggressive snakes, just fearful owners. So I feel like I've crossed a major bridge!! She had a ball out there. Almost went in the pool!!


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They shed in response to how often you feed them and the size of the food. Each snake is different, but it would appear to me that your snake hasn't gone hungry and is getting ready for shed.
 
15-20 good size fortnightly meals per year is plenty for an adult Python, I'd stick to the lower end if not breeding.....you've given her at least half that many feeds over the course of a couple of months....I probably wouldn't even bother trying to feed her again for 3-4 weeks.....if she doesn't eat then maybe give her another offering a couple of weeks later and if she still refuses then she may be done for the year and may not resume feeding till around September....
 
Thats a whole heap of food in a short amount of time, as others have said. I'd give it a good month till you try and feed her again.
Also your 'experienced' friend is an idiot and thats why he got bit, shoving his fist in the face of any animal is probably a good way to get it to bite you. Don't let it discourage you from handling it at all.
 
They shed in response to how often you feed them and the size of the food. Each snake is different, but it would appear to me that your snake hasn't gone hungry and is getting ready for shed.

Right. Thanks. You see I hadn't read anywhere that it was possible to overfeed. This is all great info.


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15-20 good size fortnightly meals per year is plenty for an adult Python, I'd stick to the lower end if not breeding.....you've given her at least half that many feeds over the course of a couple of months....I probably wouldn't even bother trying to feed her again for 3-4 weeks.....if she doesn't eat then maybe give her another offering a couple of weeks later and if she still refuses then she may be done for the year and may not resume feeding till around September....

Ok thanks Swampie.

The guy who built the new enclosure for me said I should be feeding her TWO XL rats every 10-14 days. So I figured 1 XL rat every 6 days would be about the same ..... there's so much info out there & not all of it is right for every snake I guess!

So when you say "good sized fortnightly meals" would you consider an XL rat to be an appropriate sized meal for a girl of her age & size? She's about 1.5m long.


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Thats a whole heap of food in a short amount of time, as others have said. I'd give it a good month till you try and feed her again.
Also your 'experienced' friend is an idiot and thats why he got bit, shoving his fist in the face of any animal is probably a good way to get it to bite you. Don't let it discourage you from handling it at all.

Thanks Arevenant will do.

Yep. Regarding the bite, I hear ya. She warned him first, took a sniff then recoiled briefly. He held his fist there, demonstrating how she was "checking him out". Nevermind. He wasn't bothered but it probably freaked her out. When she was back in her enclosure she was striking at me through the glass. Poor girl. Calmed down completely now. And yeah I'm rapt I swallowed my fear & handled her today. Probably great for her to get a change of scenery outside too yeah?


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Yes, one 200-250 gram rat should be ample....if she was depleted from egg laying etc you could feed her more but even then one 250 gram rat every 14 days or so would be enough....
 
Yes, one 200-250 gram rat should be ample....if she was depleted from egg laying etc you could feed her more but even then one 250 gram rat every 14 days or so would be enough....

Ok brilliant.

You said earlier that it's possible she won't want to eat again till September. Is that because their appetite drops off over winter? Or they're not aware of change of seasons in their temperature controlled environments?


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She'll eat well before September, there's a chance she might go off her food again at the beginning of winter as she goes into natural brumation, but this varies between individual snakes...
 
She'll eat well before September, there's a chance she might go off her food again at the beginning of winter as she goes into natural brumation, but this varies between individual snakes...

What's brumation?


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I'm sorry for asking so many questions! I'm really grateful for all your advice. Maybe I should invest in a good python book! Can you recommend one?

Cheers
Jo


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Brumation is an example of dormancy in reptiles that is similar to hibernation. It differs from hibernation in the metabolic processes involved.

Reptiles generally begin brumation in late autumn (more specific times depend on the species). They often wake up to drink water and return to "sleep". They can go for months without food. Reptiles may want to eat more than usual before the brumation time but eat less or refuse food as the temperature drops. However, they do need to drink water. The brumation period is anywhere from one to eight months depending on the air temperature and the size, age, and health of the reptile. During the first year of life, many small reptiles do not fully brumate, but rather slow down and eat less often. Brumation is triggered by lack of heat and the decrease in the hours of daylight in winter, similar to hibernation.

The best you'll find, will tell you absolutely everything you'll ever need.
'The Complete Carpet Python' by Nick Mutton and Justin Julander.
 
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I'm sorry for asking so many questions! I'm really grateful for all your advice. Maybe I should invest in a good python book! Can you recommend one?

Cheers
Jo


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Keeping and Breeding Australian Pythons
The Complete Carpet Python

These are the two books that I was put onto and the've been great, loads of information, detailed pictures of setups and feeding. Strongly Recommend you get them if your looking for a good book.
 
Keeping and Breeding Australian Pythons
The Complete Carpet Python

These are the two books that I was put onto and the've been great, loads of information, detailed pictures of setups and feeding. Strongly Recommend you get them if your looking for a good book.

Many thanks Ben. I'll get em!


Brumation is an example of dormancy in reptiles that is similar to hibernation. It differs from hibernation in the metabolic processes involved.

Reptiles generally begin brumation in late autumn (more specific times depend on the species). They often wake up to drink water and return to "sleep". They can go for months without food. Reptiles may want to eat more than usual before the brumation time but eat less or refuse food as the temperature drops. However, they do need to drink water. The brumation period is anywhere from one to eight months depending on the air temperature and the size, age, and health of the reptile. During the first year of life, many small reptiles do not fully brumate, but rather slow down and eat less often. Brumation is triggered by lack of heat and the decrease in the hours of daylight in winter, similar to hibernation.

The best you'll find, will tell you absolutely everything you'll ever need.
'The Complete Carpet Python' by Nick Mutton and Justin Julander.

Thanks for your thorough & detailed response Arevenant. The book is on its way to me. It's great to have this forum to voice my queries & get replies from such knowledgeable & passionate herpies (lol).


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In theory, and without knowing the snake or your handling skills, but recognising that you do have a fear of being bitten, i would like to add if I may, the difference between your friend being bitten and you not been bitten.
Sounds to me that every time you open the door to the enclosure the snake gets fed... this conditions the snake into a feeding response as soon as it feels the vibrations associated with the door opening. put a fist in there without being able to read the signs and you are just as likely to be bitten as your friend was.
Also sounds like when you handled it, you opened the door and let it come out on its on accord, which is different to when its fed. So it may not have associated this moment with a feed response because it was "different".
But there is no garantees, if you aren't experienced with snakes then you may not understand why you get bitten, and it may seem random, but use a hook to get them out, and when their out, pick up from behind while they are stretched out and moving.
In the meantime try to empathise with the animal, try to understand how it see's its environment, snakes are very different to us, their eyesight is very different, their sense of smell and temperature is very strong, they see the world in a very very different way to us. Understanding that, is the key to being a great keeper.
 
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