Monster or moggie? Claws out in catfight

[herptrader]

I'm willing to bet you a beer they'll get over it.

Next time you are in Melbourne I have a beer, and a yarn for you Tony. Please give me some advance warning.

 

[Southside Morelia]

Fair comment and a "mature response"...thankyou for that!
My comment on immature, if you read the post correctly, refers to the 90% by others...
Ido my part for conservation so I can rest assured I am doing my bit, although you have a valid point and I need to change my view...
There you go Tony and others, you can change peoples opinions on issues that I may not have known much about through factual comments....There is a history here Tony about cat bashing, hence my response.
Tooninoz, read the post i am for "exterminating" ferals, not bagging opponents to ferals.
As far as ego driven, come on mate, again casting dispersions about me or people that own these sort of animals, my cat stays indoors and people that come to my place may or may not see it...are you that shallow that you would buy a cat to show off, whatever! Why do people buy Albinos, GTP's, RSP's etc etc.....probably for the same reason I do, they like the animal!
We researched our cat before we purchased it! This breed is smarter than most, playful, athletic, the list goes on....my choice and again, I am a responsible cat owner and herp keeper.
Thanks for the debate....I see your point!

I've got to respond to Scotty's rant (the mature one).

Next to land clearing, invasive species are the biggest impact on biodiversity, worldwide. Showing concern about this environmental issue doesn't mean people don't care about climate change or other environmental issues. Most people are capable of having a few environmental concerns at the same time.

Australia has the worst extinction rate of animals in the world, and the most number of threatened animal species. Cats are a factor (not the biggest - foxes are worse; and each area is different).

We aren't talking about the next few years where responsible owners look after expensive pets. The price of Savannahs in the US is already plummeting as newer exotic breeds become available - lots of ads for them online for $800. Savannahs won't stay at $5,000 here forever and once they come in, the federal government has no powers over what the breeders do.

Savannahs show that the Environmental Protection and Biodiversity Act needs modifying. Until you snake guys kicked up a fuss, this cat was going to be let in with zero public consultation. The same would apply for the other six or seven hybrid cat "breeds" and for wolf-dog hybrids and coyote-dog hybrids. Half a million Americans own a wolf-dog hybrid and the Centre for Disease Control notes that they kill an American every 18 months on average (not the owners - other people's children).

This debate is important and worth having. Frankly, it has probably taken 10 minutes of the Environment Minister's time, so it is hardly a distraction. The RSPCA, the Australian Veterinary Association, Humane Society International Australia, Woolproducers Australia etc etc all think this is a bad idea.

Nice that you're willing to help with the clean up if you're wrong.

If I'm wrong and we end up keeping them out for no real reason, the downside is a few people miss out on owning a spotted cat that looks like a serval and acts like a dog. I'm willing to bet you a beer they'll get over it.

 

[TonyPeacock]

One opinion at a time...

Thanks Scott.

I knew you weren't referring to my posts as rubbish.

The debate needs to be about whether hybrids are allowed in with no risk assessment of their potential "feralness".

Our Cooperative Research Centre has just been presenting data that shows wild dogs in southern Australia are 3.0kg or 24% bigger than they were prior to 1970. This is plain domestic dogs coming into the population and mating with dingoes. So instead of 14.5kg, we have 17.5kg dogs.

If that trend continues for another 30 years, and dogs are around 21kg, we predict significant switching of prey species. So from a wallaby now to a kangaroo; or packs will take more cattle rather than sheep etc.

This "loophole" in the quarantine law means if I wanted to, I could bring in wolf-dog hybrids, or coyote-dog hybrids, as a private citizen with no public consultation, as long as they are five generations away from the wild species. We are borrowing the definition of what's "wild" from the CITES definition, which has absolutely nothing to do with this debate (its purpose is to stop trade in endangered species, not to define what is a domestic animal). Dogs have probably been domesticated for 40,000 generations separate to wolves - this definition says they are the same thing again after only five back together.

The five generation argument is getting put up a lot - these Savannahs are only 3-9% serval "blood". That's still thousands and thousands of serval genes. The breeders clearly favour genes for serval looks, like the big ears for example. There is absolutely no way of telling that they aren't also selecting for genes for ultrasonic hearing that is one of the great advantages of servals in the wild.

Serval's are the most efficient hunters in Africa, I'm told. They catch 50% of the prey they go for. Most of the prey are rodents. The ability to hear at ultrasonic levels obviosuly is a huge advantage. In the chat pages on pet Savannahs, a number of owners comment that they can never, ever, sneak up on their Savannah - that they are much more alert than normal domestic cats. It seems reasonable that Savannahs do have more sensitive hearing than normal breeds.

I'm arguing that a trait like this could pass from servals to pet Savannahs to feral cats.

I don't know if I'm right (I'm a reproductive biologist by training and I have taught a tiny bit of University genetics, but I'm far from a geneticist). Many geneticists have agreed with me, though.

The importers cannot show that I'm wrong. No one can because there is no data. It would take a long study to find out - the dog stuff I quoted before has taken more than three decades to become clear. That's a decade longer than this breed has been in existence.

 

[Stitched]

If you don't want feral pigs, just close down the McDonalds in Elizabeth

HAHAHA brilliant

 

[Sidonia]

hey, has anyone seen my pussy ???

No, but feel free to post pictures.

 

[tooninoz]

Back to reality....

Tony, i see the AWL logo is back on the Savannah Cats Aust site. I've mailed AWL about it, but what is your position on it?

It would be sad to see this thread descend into yet more *yawn* pussy jokes. It's a serious issue.
Sad to see it degenerate into yet another lowest common denominator pissweak joke for pre-pubes.

 

[bundy_zigg]

Ha stuff the savannah, why not start to bring in this interesting cross breed.
I introduce the LIGAR, and he is still growing.

 

[Sidonia]

Ligars are neat looking.... I want a big ligar friend!