Discussion in 'Reptile News' started by News Bot, Apr 24, 2013.
they should start culling alright,they should start by culling STUPID PEOPLE
Do you honestly think that snakes don't get killed in their thousands every week?
Open your eyes people.
Roos are killed to protect crop lands. So are Ducks and Cockatoos. Even Wombats.
Millions of native animals are killed or deprived of habitat to make way for housing and roads.
Millions more are killed to put food on tables.
Millions more are killed on roads.
But the idea of killing a few crocs to make certain areas safer for people? No way!
all of my posts were based on experiences in cape York which is (QLD) not N.T. the crocs are growing in numbers in all of north Australia
yes they should and start with people who post comments on things they know nothing about....
The whole "Croc's were here first and it's the stupid humans that should be removed" argument is illogical....Human beings as the dominant species on the planet are always going to want to live anywhere we can and there is nothing anyone can do about it...Best to strike a balance between Humans and Crocs...Aka set up National Parks/preserve important river systems where hunting is strictly banned but allow some managed hunting/harvesting elsewhere.
Even if crocs were culled back, why would people deem it now safe to enter the water. Crocs can turn up overnight.
By all means cull the numbers of crocs by whatever means, but it won't stop people being taken if the psychology of humans doesn't respect that yes we are a part of ecology, and that means the food chain.
They'll be going fishing or whatever believing that because of a cull there are no crocs. The rangers and spotters etc can't be everywhere following every croc..... people need to respect the top end waters regardless of the croc population. If they want to go near the water (say its their god given right) to fish etc, then you need to be aware of the risk, and if the risk is too great then give up playing by the waters edge. Its very simple.
People like this woman, need to stop trying to blame others and take a good look at themselves and the part they played in what happened. The bloody croc has given her and her son a warning, she should be grateful for that warning and just back off.
By back off, I mean take a minute, learn by your mistakes and take care.
I don't like the idea of killing native animals but I fully understand and would support the decision to cull the problematic crocs and keep numbers down and try and keep them from spreading too close to suburban life.
However the ignorant people like these women need to understand that part of living up there or holidaying up there involves crocs being in almost all waterways.
Even if the population is 'controlled' there won't ever be none up north so put up with it, get a real education and don't make stupid decisions then go on about how it's not your fault.
If you live with the crocs, you respect them and don't go wanting to kill them all because of their nature. In saying that, I don't think culling is a bad idea and may provide some benefits and a slightly larger sense of security. This does not mean your guard should be dropped.
I don't disagree with any of this.
At the end of the day, people are responsible for their own saftey in these areas.
I lived in the north (near Darwin) for only one short year, but still long enough to learn that the croc population needs to be 'managed' either way. These animals were once endangered and since being protected from hunting numbers have exploded. As has been said by others, they are now moving into areas which were not originally occupied by crocs.
For whatever reasons (I'm not an expert but I guess they would including them being an apex predator as adults and the effect cane toads have on predators of young crocs) the populations are not controlling themselves.
These are animals that we farm for meat/leather products to export so we shouldn't be kidding ourselves that these species are untouched so far!
EDIT: stupid phone update!! Was viewing some old list :/
If ONE of you lost a loved one or a loved pet to one of these croc's…………you ALL would think differently to having them living on your door step…….. I can't warm to them.
Leave them alone in there environment BUT keep them out of ours!!
What's your definition of "their environment" and our's?
I am not sure why losing a loved one to a croc should change one’s attitude towards them. We know they are potential killers. We know cars are potential killers. Losing a loved one in a car accident does not normally stop people from driving. It may encourage you to be a lot more aware and careful and not take risks on the road. The same would no doubt apply when in croc country if you lost a loved one that way.
Crocodiles were controlled around human habitation in the past by shooting them. The reality is that this is a particularly effective method of control because those crocs which avoid being shot become gun shy. Any crocs remaining in an area that has been ‘shot out’ are only there because they have learned to avoid contact with humans. Hence they don’t present a danger.
Croc populations like any population (other than humans) are self limiting. To exist and reproduce they require a range of resources such as food, a suitable habitat, water, suitable climate, space, food, a mate, nesting sites and so on. Whichever resource is fully utilised first is the limiting factor on the population. In non-territorial animals the limiting factor is often food while in territorial species it is mostly space.
What I suspect is happening is that the populations in areas surrounding human habitation are reaching carrying capacity and the ‘overflow’ are being forced into the less desirable area where there are lots of humans. Ocean going crocs are much less affected by human habitation and may be present in numbers in urban areas.
As some one who has lived in the top end my whole (though short) life, And has grown up around the water and immersed in many of the pastimes we enjoy in northern australia, and the dangers that come with them. Being the person that i am have come up with a unique and thorough opinion about the croc debate.
The opinion that crocs should be culled/controlled in some way is shared by many, including many indigenous people who all now in the present have not lived in the time when northern australias eco system was unouched, and do not recognise the importance of maintaining the natural ecosystem. I for one prefer to see things the way they are meant to be.
An example; My grand father is a traditional owner born in the late 1930s he tells me stories of the old times and them being able to swim everywhere, and even learning the shooting and skinning trade as a teen. The culture of erradicating these beasts had been established decades before he was even born, and this was this was the norm right across the NT (port darwin settlement established in 1869 and first contact several decades before).
So after over a hundred years of being shot at crocodiles are only returning to the places they once thrived. The now wide spread humans across the north Aus are having a hard time adjusting to the way things are supposed to be.
As for the danger factor.
The result of all deaths in recent years is due to complacency and lack of commonsense around the water, nothing more. Though the facts are quickly lost in the hype and sensationalism. if you swim in the designated waterholes monitored by parks and wildlife your safe. If you let your children swim in floodwater that runs into main river systems or want to have an evening dip in the mary river your gonna have a bad time...
There are other factors which contribute to the control of their numbers and safety of the crocwise punter.
Dont forget that parks and wildlife trap and remove around 200+ animals annually from the darwin and katherine region, wild eggs are harvested (the 2012-13 maxium quota for egg harvesting is 60'000) There is still natural selection and they do fight and kill each other for territory, police and rangers in remote communities do shoot problem/large crocs that hang around, As do the locals. Also alot of territorians do shoot them when they go camping and fishing, mainly for fun. I have several mates that do this unforunately. And then theres the toads...
I just read on the nt parks and wildlife about a group of young people were found beheading a croc they killed at shady camp!! (Place has highest concentration of crocs in the NT) This on top of countless photos and stories of moronic behaviour around dangerous water bodies is enough to tell you that many people are very ignorant towards using their brain to safely sharing their habitat. Thinking they are safe at the top of the food chain, when clearly they are not.
Co existing can be done and is demonstrated well in coastal indigenous communities, Although not immune from croc attacks but do a live slightly more harmonius existence, mainly by having a healthy respect for them (aka fear)
So in all i believe a new balance at the top of the food chain has been set and it should be how it is. Be crocwise, Its simple really.
Anyone showing no respect for salties will pay the price. I have lived in the Top End since 1975 and have always been careful around water. Even so I have had some very very close calls with big crocs because they are just such excellent stalkers. You let your guard down at your own peril.
To get into the water with this is simply suicide.
Nonetheless even after thousands of croc encounters my heart still races when I am near a big one. It is primal. I for one love the fact they are here, I have no problem with culling but fools will still find a way to put themselves in danger. And the crocs will make them pay.
Their environment - middle of nowhere……
Our Environment - heavy populated area's…..
"Controlled" culling hasn't hurt anything yet. Stick a descent price on per head and give the majority of the money to aboriginal care in the top end. Hit the poachers hard and give that money to aboriginal care in the top end also. Just dont tell the Australian Greens about it, they'd be so upset crocs aren't out there killing people or their livelihoods.
Up here people live in the middle of nowhere and have done so for many years. You can't look at your suburbia and think it is the same here. It isn't. If it was that simple there would be a simple solution, there is no simple solution.
I would not call humans an ‘apex predator’. The term describes a position in the food web of a natural ecological system. The main predator of crocodiles is far and away larger crocodiles. Just to put it into perspective, each year in Australia the average number of lives lost to some different causes is.... crocodiles 2, snakebite 3, dogs 6, horse riding 20, beach drowning 55, river or creek drowning 75. (I shall leave vehicles out of it.)
As Dan pointed out, large numbers of crocodile eggs are permitted to be harvested. Collection areas are defined and the number of eggs permitted to be collected in a given area is set annually. Egg collection is based on population numbers and maintained within sustainable limits. More offspring are produced than can possibly survive to adulthood and breeding age. There is competition between individuals to survive. Removing a percentage of offspring (or eggs) that still leaves more individuals than can ultimately survive, resulting in competition for survival and natural selection. This has zero effect on the total population size and is therefore a sustainable yield which can be maintained indefinitely.
Large nuisance crocodiles that require removal normally end up in croc farms. Relocating them into a stretch of river where crocs are found will simply cause a territorial fight to the death with a resident.
People living in or visiting crocodile country need to be crocodile educated. For example, any body of water may contain crocs, even if totally isolated, as they disperse during the wet when billabongs and lakes are connected by water to drainage channels. Having such a common and potentially dangerous animal protected obviously does not make sense to a lot of people, especially given they used to be shot on sight and their skins sold to make money. The things Dan mentioned are common and widespread practices, despite crocs being protected and this is probably why. I don’t live in the NT which is why I have not offered any opinions to date, just facts. I will say that I believe Dan has the correct outlook.
Steve. Just like grubbing around in the creek as a kid, except the stakes are somewhat higher and the adrenalin rush somewhat greater. Hopelessly addicted to adventure!
Problem with many crocs now is that they are no longer scared
20 years ago they vanished at sight or sound of humans
There were a few big ones but really not that many
Any big ones remembered the croc shooting days
Now there are a lot of big ones that have grown up safe and secure
Never been shot at
Have no fear of humans
[they are still cautious; but that is a natural part of being a croc]
Because of over population they are being forced into more contact with humans
Most common barra boat for fishing was 3.5 metre tinnie and we felt safe
Wouldnt get me on many rivers there now in less than 4.5metre tinnie
I am amazed not more people are taken, especially around Cairns and the other regional centres of the far nth. For as much as the croc population has come back in healthy numbers, I really do find it amazing that the stats for crocs taking people are really quite low.
Any given day around the northern beaches of Cairns you will find gumbie's with no brains mucking around in the water. Most crocs won't target people preferring the dogs but I still see mum and dad letting their kiddies play on the water edge. 99.9% they get away with it.