Mother calls for croc cull after near miss

Discussion in 'Reptile News' started by News Bot, Apr 24, 2013.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. spud_meister

    spud_meister Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2013
    Messages:
    118
    Likes Received:
    0
    Not knowing much about the topic, but it seems to me the easiest way would be allowing shooting around populated areas. See a croc near a town, shoot it. See a croc not near a town, stay the hell away from it.
     
  2. Darlyn

    Darlyn Very Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2010
    Messages:
    2,708
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Darwin
    This proposal certainly supports the idea that you don't know much about the topic :)
     
  3. caliherp

    caliherp Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2012
    Messages:
    935
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    USA California
    You guys gave me the ambition do do a little research about harvesting gaters here in the U.S. I'm creating more questions then answers for myself. It seems harvesting is doing some good, the effects of it though are inconclusive to me at the moment.

    I feel longqi touched a very important aspect and that is fear. 50 years ago in the states for instance our population was nothing like it is now. They didn't come into contact with gaters as much as they do now, and when they did they would usually dispatch them rather quickly. Over the years as our population exploded so did our contact with gaters. I think a combination of population explosion as well as more frequent encounters lead to a decreased fear of humans. Not to mention the idiots hand feeding them.

    Regards, Patrick
     
  4. Klaery

    Klaery Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2010
    Messages:
    553
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Brisbane
    Dan above said everything I wanted to say. Just wanted to add to something Blue said though.

    Back in uni I was doing some volunteer work with Craig Franklin (croc research at the time). I remember that they put a tracking device on a croc that was taken from Cairns and released it on the other side of the cape near NT. It stayed there for a few months and then over a very short period swam out into the ocean, around the top, and back to Cairns. At the time this was leading towards the realization that relocation was not very effective.

    This was a long time ago though and some of the details are a bit blurred but you get the gist of the story.
     
  5. spud_meister

    spud_meister Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2013
    Messages:
    118
    Likes Received:
    0
    Told ya so. :lol:
     
  6. Dendrobates

    Dendrobates Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    Messages:
    178
    Likes Received:
    0
    The reason crocs aren't scared in built up areas is because people are stupid enough to feed them. People cleaning fish and letting their dogs swim around boat ramps attracts crocodiles (just like any other animal they are just looking for food). They can't differentiate between humans, a pig, kangaroo, etc.. it all looks like food to them, they are only doing what comes naturally. Move away from the populated areas and crocodiles won't let you get anywhere near them, they are a very nervous and shy animal, especially for how large they are.
    Crocodile numbers are low in northern Queensland, much more low than what they are in the NT. I live in northern QLD and I also work with crocodiles.. I know how they operate, what their numbers are like and the areas that they prefer to frequent.. these areas usually being somewhere far away from people. That is, until people spread towards their homes and then complain that there's crocodiles in the area (the same as when people built a house backing onto the bush and then complain that they are getting snakes in the yard - it's no different). Stay away from the water and you'll be safe from crocodiles. It's common sense, which doesn't seem to be all too common these days.
     
  7. longqi

    longqi Very Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2009
    Messages:
    2,903
    Likes Received:
    4
    Location:
    Bali indonesia
    Problem is quite different in NT
    Crocs are over populated there and so they are spreading out into areas which havnt seen a croc before
    If even your grandfather has never seen a croc within cooee of your swimming hole can you blame people from getting a surprise sometimes?
    Very few rivers in NQ have anywhere near the populations that many NT rivers have
    Few NQ crocs come close to the big ones spreading out in NT
    In some rivers there are many crocs way over 4metre and they follow boats waiting for a fish to be hooked
    Unlike Qld many are not shy by any stretch of the imagination

    Unlike Blue I consider humans to be the ultimate apex predator because we can and do kill anything
    Up north two apex predators are coming into contact more often
    They are only coming into contact because as each river in a park etc becomes over populated they are forced to move to another river system outside the parks

    Regardless of how 'cute' some people think crocs are they need to be culled
    Otherwise one day there will be a major problem and some idiot will sign a paper allowing all crocs to be removed
     
  8. Dendrobates

    Dendrobates Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    Messages:
    178
    Likes Received:
    0
    I have also spent a lot of time in the NT around crocs, and have had my very own close calls.. the numbers aren't anywhere near as bad as you are making them out to be. Yes the NT has a large saltwater crocodile population, but they aren't in plague numbers. People are moving into their habitat, they are being fed, river 'jumping' tours are encouraging crocs to come up to boats and viewing boats as a source of food. People are to blame for these problems and education is the key (just like it is for all dangerous animals).
    Culling crocs will never make an area safe, removing an alpha male only encourages smaller rogue males to move into that area and fight for territory. Crocs are there for a reason, they serve a purpose and as the apex predator in 'their' environment that purpose is to keep the numbers of other animals (their prey) in check. If those animals aren't kept as a decent number than there are a lot more issues to deal with.. major erosion, disease, etc etc

    Just because something is dangerous, scary or misunderstood does not mean that it should be killed. Unfortunately the majority of humans seem to have that attitude.
     
  9. longqi

    longqi Very Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2009
    Messages:
    2,903
    Likes Received:
    4
    Location:
    Bali indonesia
    Ive only ever had what I would call one close call in Aus
    [I dont consider being stalked in a boat a close call]
    But croc numbers have dramatically increased in the last 20years

    Look at the numbers of crocs being relocated just in Darwin harbour
    Every year it increases
    Some females are kept for breeding
    Most males get turned into hamburgers and handbags with any benefits going to the already profitable croc farms????

    Culling crocs can most definitely make safer areas

    Every year crocs are turning up in what was considered safe areas
    Regardless on if they are fed or not they are becoming too used to humans

    When you have apex predators turning up in places they have not been seen for 60 years something has to give

    Unfortunately for the crocs it must be them that gives

    Otherwise one day some official will sign a paper and a huge number will be eradicated
    Better to bite the bullet now and keep them at a lower level
     
  10. richoman_3

    richoman_3 Very Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2009
    Messages:
    2,555
    Likes Received:
    7
    Location:
    Melbourne
    Human numbers have also dramatically increased in the past 60 years .. maybe thats why we are getting in contact with them more?
     
  11. Dendrobates

    Dendrobates Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    Messages:
    178
    Likes Received:
    0
    What proof or facts are you basing your argument on? Just hear-say?
    Of course croc numbers have increased in the last 20 years - it's now illegal to kill them unless you're aboriginal. They were a threatened species not that long ago, but obviously aren't these days. They are back at the numbers there were 100 years ago (in the NT anyway. QLD still isn't even close).
    Once again I'll say that the numbers increase around people every year because they are being fed and used as a tourist drawcard (feeding from boats, etc). This also encourages more animals to move into an area if there is plentiful food there. Humans are to blame for that mistake.

    Culling crocs does NOT make an area safer. It provides a false sense of security where people believe that an area is now croc free when it can't be proven that there isn't a single croc in that area.

    If people are going to live in Northern Australia they need to be aware of the dangers of being around waterways and use common sense. If you stay on land well back from the water than you face very little chance of a crocodile attack.

    Why must it be crocs that have to give? Just because selfish humans feel like they have the right to go wherever they feel like?

    Have you not seen what is going on in Cairns at the moment? Some clueless official has already signed off to have all crocs removed from the area just so he can feel like he's making a difference.
    Also legally wild-caught crocodiles are not allowed to be used for food, handbags, etc.. they are to live out their lives in a croc farm and then buried when they die. The croc farms are not allowed to make any profit from these animals. But, we would have to have to be pretty naive to think that that's how it actually pans out for them... yes, they may become food, but a wild croc will not become a hand bag or any form of designer clothing - they are covered in scars and imperfections which are undesirable for the fashion trade.
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2013
  12. longqi

    longqi Very Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2009
    Messages:
    2,903
    Likes Received:
    4
    Location:
    Bali indonesia
    First fished up North commercially in 1976
    Fished there nearly every year since for fun until three years ago
    Go places like East alligator mouth and talk to locals
    No other proof needed

    Apart from the tourist boats have only ever seen Mexicans trying to feed crocs
    Locals know better

    There was a very recent interview with NT rangers on tv
    They had a male and a female croc caught in Darwin harbour tied in the back of their truck
    Stated quite clearly that the female was possibly brood stock but the male was destined for leather

    Maybe things are changing regarding skins in Qld toooooo???
    Qld quote

    [h=1]Homeless crocs to be killed under Qld plan[/h]





    • November 08, 2013


    CROCODILES that can't be found new homes under Queensland's croc removal scheme will be killed.

    Environment Minister Andrew Powell said in June that all reptiles removed from waterways in the state's north under croc management plans would be sent to farms or zoos.
    However, a spokeswoman from Mr Powell's office said on Friday that if new homes can't be found for any of the crocs they will have to be euthanised.

    In June, environmentalist Bob Irwin slammed the scheme, saying crocs would be turned into expensive handbags and used for meat once relocated to farms.
    He said crocs should be released elsewhere in the wild, not put into captivity.
    At the time, Mr Powell's office would not say if any of the animals ultimately end up being used for fashion accessories or meat.

    Cairns is a perfect example of the type of official stupidity I mentioned
    Culling can be used to avoid that probability in the NT
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2013
  13. Darlyn

    Darlyn Very Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2010
    Messages:
    2,708
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Darwin
    Talking about "culling" is kind of an open ended discussion. What defines "culling". Having the ability to get rid of problem crocs
    (they are already doing it) in areas (mostly communities) where the presence of crocs are a danger to locals going about their daily lives.
    Taking out problem crocs in these areas will not endanger people as they are used to living with crocs and are well aware that removing one will not mean the area is safe. These people are not idiots. Aspidorhyncha it's a bit rich to claim that "numbers increase around people every year because they are being fed and used as a tourist drawcard". This occurs on one river and one river only. Croc numbers have increased everywhere up here. Not just one river.
     
  14. longqi

    longqi Very Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2009
    Messages:
    2,903
    Likes Received:
    4
    Location:
    Bali indonesia
    Lynn
    My belief is that they should permit the killing of crocs encroaching on areas inhabited by humans
    That would make it legal
    Increase the egg taking until wild populations stabilise rather than keep growing

    Not that long ago 3 elderly ladies were charged with killing a croc with spears
    Judge threw it out
    But if the laws were in place they would never have been charged

    Crocs are not stupid
    .22 in the tip of the tail and nobody sees that croc again
    Kill a few close to humans and the rest will move away quick smart if they have somewhere to go
     
  15. Darlyn

    Darlyn Very Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2010
    Messages:
    2,708
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Darwin
    I agree Peter, I also think that there is room for economic benefits in the communities if it is done properly.
    Unfortunately that will probably not happen because everyone has an opinion and when these decisions are made they are made by people who either don't live in the areas or have their own agendas. Probably best to leave it with the locals, turn a blind eye. At least some mob will get a feed :)
     
  16. Dendrobates

    Dendrobates Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    Messages:
    178
    Likes Received:
    0
    Talking to locals in an area doesn't provide any proof at all. That's the same as going out to a remote property and having the farmer educate you on all the king browns they see that chase you... locals tend to exaggerate to a point. I'm not saying croc numbers aren't high in the NT, but local observations aren't proof to back up everything that you've said.

    I have seen locals feeding crocs in the East Alligator and the Mary River, as well as locals swimming in the water up there (remember the fella that was killed just recently?) - so no, locals don't always know better.

    Lastly park rangers have no clue about a lot of things, so what they say can't be taken as gospel. Like I have said, I'm around saltwater crocs every single day - education is also part of my job. Part of my job also involves what happens with those skins, and I know for a fact that wild crocs are NOT used in the skin trade.

    That Cairns thing you've posted is a perfect example of MP's changing laws just to suit themselves, and that particular change has caused a huge uproar in the past week since it was released. They have also got aboriginals in to do the culling, which means that the government can cover their own **** when it comes to killing a protected species.

    I must point out though that I have no problem with the removal of problem crocs, these actions are completely justified. I also have no problem with traditional owners killing what they feel necessary and keeping things under control, as long as they do it in traditional ways.
    Darlyn - you have taken one tiny piece of what I said and turned it around to suit yourself. I never stated that that was the only reason numbers are increasing, it is just one example of people drawing crocodiles closer to themselves and making them more 'brave' if you will.

    My major issue is people wanting to kill everything that is natural to an area just because it inconveniences them. If you want to live in the tropics than stay away from the water, respect the creatures that live in it and everything will be sweet.
     
  17. longqi

    longqi Very Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2009
    Messages:
    2,903
    Likes Received:
    4
    Location:
    Bali indonesia
    Aspid
    I would fight hard to protect them
    But within logical limits

    Nobody wants to kill all the crocs
    [except maybe in Qld]
    Problem crocs are usually big ones
    Big ones are the prime breeders genetically
    Much better to remove a lot of smaller ones which will slow down their spread

    regarding handbags
    this is the official qld gov position
    Quote; At the time, Mr Powell's office would not say if any of the animals ultimately end up being used for fashion accessories or meat.
    So maybe you better ask officially what will happen to Qld skins etc now???

    As for wanting to kill everything natural to an area??
    300 years ago crocs inhabited a line across tropical Australia
    Are you proposing to let them walk through Darwin Cairns Townsville etc etc without repercussions?
    Or do we draw the line about 30 years ago??
    Crocs were there if you went looking hard enough
    But they were not encroaching on human habitation

    Maybe Lynn is right
    Give the locals free bullets and let them sort the mess out?
    Doing that might help prevent the mass killing which is being implemented in Qld??
     
  18. richoman_3

    richoman_3 Very Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2009
    Messages:
    2,555
    Likes Received:
    7
    Location:
    Melbourne
    what are you trying to say longqi?
    you are making zero sense?
    You are going on about nothing, and than constantly backing up nothing with nothing?
     
  19. Darlyn

    Darlyn Very Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2010
    Messages:
    2,708
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Darwin
    Aspid you stated twice about the croc feeding, I didn't turn anything around.

    "Lastly park rangers have no clue about a lot of things, so what they say can't be taken as gospel." Really, we should just listen to you cos you work with crocs and live in Queensland? I don't think so.

     
  20. longqi

    longqi Very Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2009
    Messages:
    2,903
    Likes Received:
    4
    Location:
    Bali indonesia
    What I have said is that croc populations are growing too fast in NT waterways
    This is forcing the crocs to move into areas where they have not been seen for years
    Crocs are apex predators and there are only a few who still remember being shot at
    This has made the rest of the crocs into potentially very dangerous animals
    Especially the ones now forced in human habitats

    To solve the problem will not be easy
    Taking more and more eggs until the population stabilises rather than grows may work
    But removing eggs will not improve the situation quickly

    Qld has now more or less issued kill on sight
    Unless NT wants to face the same sort of stupid decisions a culling plan needs to be implemented
    That plan unfortunately must include some park rivers systems
    It must include those because it is the overflow of crocs from those areas which is spreading out

    Much better to bite the bullet now and keep them at manageable levels
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page