Mother calls for croc cull after near miss

Discussion in 'Reptile News' started by News Bot, Apr 24, 2013.

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  1. Dendrobates

    Dendrobates Active Member

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    Once again you're just picking one little section and focusing on it. I never said you should listen to me, I'm just offering an opinion from someone that is involved with crocs and having a friendly debate which you are obviously taking to heart based on your response. Just because you live in the NT and see crocodiles does that mean everyone should listen to you?
    But yes, if you believe everything a park ranger says your head will be forever be filled with incorrect info. The majority of people that are into reptiles know that.

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    Also Longqi, what is 'human habitats'? Is that areas where animals once lived but people have taken it over as their own, built on it and then whinged about the dangerous native wildlife?

    Bees are killing many more people every year than what crocs are. Should they also be culled?

    I know I'm wasting my time debating, but it's good to have a think about the long term consequences of our actions.
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2013
  2. Wing_Nut

    Wing_Nut Well-Known Member

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    Has the burgeoning feral pig population played any role in the rapid spread and reproduction of the salt water crocodile? Has the population of prey (including cattle) played a part in the population explosion to the point it possibly exceeds sustainable historic levels? Does it follow that human influence has played a part in creating this problem and such should play a part in resetting the balance?
     
  3. Dendrobates

    Dendrobates Active Member

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    Instead of shuffling paperwork and fining people for moving a beardie off the road perhaps park rangers should be out there culling all the pest species that are in plague numbers throughout the top end (and the rest of Australia). Like Wing Nut had said - large pig, cattle, hooved animal populations do play a part in the large number of crocs. There will only be as many predators in an ecosystem as is needed to balance out the prey numbers, otherwise the predators starve. Remove the prey and the predator numbers will drop to suit.
     
  4. longqi

    longqi Very Well-Known Member

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    Problem with removing prey from crocodiles is that they can go without food for a very long time
    This gives them the opportunity to move somewhere else
    If all feral animals were removed tomorrow what is left for them to feed on?
    Long pig and hairless goat might be on the menu a bit more often

    I completely agree feral animals should be removed on sight

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    Never a waste of time debating
    What will be the long term consequences if a culling operation is not put in place soon?
    Qld solution. Shoot them all and worry about it afterwards???

    Human habitats to me would include any area where crocs have not been seen in living memory and have now been settled by humans during that period
    Example
    Darwin harbour would not be rated as human habitat by me because crocs have always existed there
    But other areas close to Darwin could be included if crocs had not been seen within living memory

    If bees were predatory animals whose numbers were increasing at ever increasing percentages
    and were turning up uninvited too often; then yes they should be culled
    But because their numbers are dropping rapidly that means they offer less risk than ever before so no culling is required

    Horses kill more people than bees but apart from the feral brumbies they should be left alone too
    Even shark species should never be culled because their attacks are avoidable

    Because crocs learn so fast and can move long distances both on land and water they present a very different set of problems
     
  5. Wing_Nut

    Wing_Nut Well-Known Member

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    I wasn't just suggesting culling feral animals, but any reduction in crocs would certainly be more effective in the long term if some of the underlying causes of the problem where also addressed as part of any management strategy. Would you agree? The alternative would really need to be an annual cull. Not certain of the benefit of this out weighs the negatives.
     
  6. i_am_snake

    i_am_snake New Member

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    Culling the feral animals that the crocs eat may have some impact to their population but it is an almost imposible task, it would cost millions and is not something the govt would consider. They do already cull feral animals annually via 50 cal and chopper but they probably target only high concerntrated areas of pig and buff. Also large concentrations of crocs existed at the turn of the last century before feral animals were in plague proportion to help them, and the removal of excess foods could drive them even closer to humans.

    Lonqi, not many examples can be given as to habitats where where crocs were once not seen and now populated by humans. The freshwater swimming spots i can think of around the rural areas of darwin which i swam in as a teen are waterways which feed directly into the main river systems, all of these areas are still surrounded by bush land (which sometimes is peoples properties) but is hardly developed. Yes crocs are now more frequent in these areas but these areas are not safe and should never been deemed safe as this porosus natural habitat.

    Croc attacks can be avoided, just like shark attacks!!
    The proof is that people who do get taken are in the wrongplace and aren't using common sense.

    to control crocodiles from living near human populated areas or prevent attacks you will have to kill thousands and thousands of them, As they will keep moving in on new territories as stated by many others here. Yes crocs get gun shy but that is no fool proof way of thinking you are safe in their habitat.

    dan
     
  7. Darwin-boy

    Darwin-boy Not so new Member

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    On this topic its simple if you swim in the water when you know you shouldnt you deserve to die not the croc i have lived in darwin all my life and worked with crocs and will always respect them! and never forget that the heavily populated areas in which we live were once the crocs not ours if you are dumb enough to swim in water where you shoudnt and you or someone close gets taken by a croc then you scream poor us cull them thats just down right ludacris we dont kill our human murderers, rapists, pedophiles etc. so why does a prehistoric animal that was made to kill and eat and was here first deserve to die because of pure ignorance!!!
     
  8. lochie

    lochie Not so new Member

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    Having grown up in FNQ and being a country boy in a city I always head home frequently.
    A crocodile cull needs to happen, regulate it tax it what ever but something does need to happen.

    I'm not interested in a debate with anyone as I know this can be a controversial topic.
    This is just my opinion having spent 13+ years of my life living with in <1km from a estuary.
     
  9. champagne

    champagne Well-Known Member

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    is it really a problem? how many people actually die from croc attacks each year in Australia one maybe two? If you are stupid enough to go swimming up north well....
     
  10. longqi

    longqi Very Well-Known Member

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    Crocs are turning up too often away from water in isolated communities
    So its not just swimmers who need to be careful

    Its not so much that it is a huge problem yet
    But within 5 years it definitely will be a problem if something isnt done
    Qld has adopted a kill them all approach
    To avoid that possibility in NT better to fix it now
     
  11. Dendrobates

    Dendrobates Active Member

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    It averages out to be one death every 2 years in Australia from croc attacks. 20 deaths a year from horses and 13 deaths a year from having a vending machine fall on you... crocs are definitely the most dangerous thing we've got going...

    Have you seen how quick a croc can move on land longqi? A person can almost crawl faster than them... if you're stupid enough to get close enough to get grabbed by a crocodile that is out of the water then you deserve to be in it's jaws.

    QLD's approach isn't kill them all everywhere, it's only in the Cairns region and only as far north as Ellis Beach. It's also a trapping approach, which will never happen.. it's behind the scenes out of the public eye that they are killed.
     
  12. champagne

    champagne Well-Known Member

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    or people could just stay out of the water and be croc smart around water in northern Australia....

    284 people drowned in Australian waterways between July 1 2011 and June 30 2012, how many people died from croc attacks? maybe the government needs to get their priorities right if they are worried about human safety around waterways.
     
  13. Burnerism

    Burnerism Active Member

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    Like surfing at the beach?
     
  14. SteveNT

    SteveNT Very Well-Known Member

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    I have been chased (not far) by both wild salties and freshies on land. If I was crawling I would have suffered serious injuries. It is completely stupid and reckless to tell people that they can crawl faster than a crocodile.

    Dont mistake an overfed slug at a zoo/farm for the real deal. You do so at your peril.
     
  15. Renenet

    Renenet Very Well-Known Member

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    Did anyone see Reptile Battleground? It's probably still available on ABC iView. It will dispel the myth that saltwater crocs can't run on land. They're not built to run far, but they can go at surprising speeds over a short distance.
     
  16. Trimeresurus

    Trimeresurus Guest

    Fact is most animals are physically superior to us, people just need to use what WE have more often (superior brains - debatable for some).
     
  17. Dendrobates

    Dendrobates Active Member

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    Sorry, I've over-exaggerated a fair bit there out of frustration and it was stupid.. more the point I was trying to get across is that they can't outrun a person or move very far without tiring out quickly. I'm not referring to zoo or farm crocs either. I was more referring to large adult males.. I've seen some adult females move fairly quick over a 20 metre distance.
    I've also had a wild saltie charge me on the land, and I guess being around them a lot you get to know their movements and how they operate. Something a lot of people wouldn't see or understand.

    The overall point I've tried to get across is that people need to use common sense in crocodile territory, respect the dangers, be careful around water and realise that killing things doesn't solve our problems. There's a lot worse dangers out there that need to be focused on first.
     
  18. i_am_snake

    i_am_snake New Member

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    Sorry bud, I was referring to croc fatalities not shark attacks. Not that you'd see me in the water when i go down south.
     
  19. Bluetongue1

    Bluetongue1 Guest

    If this statement were true then there would never have been any incentive for wasting money, time and effort on the shooting of crocs that went on for decades. Secondly, according to the Bureau of Statistics, the deaths due to crocodiles averages 2 per year. Bees are also critical for pollinating billions of dollars worth of food crops. Aspidorhyncha, I believe you have some valid points to make, even though I disagree with some.

    Darlyn raised the important point of: What do we mean by “culling”? Without qualifying its meaning it could be anything from open season to selective removal of occasional individuals identified as a danger to human life. I see little point in using the word unless you make its meaning clear.

    Longqi, I have trouble with what is meant by “over populated”. Natural populations are self-limiting according to whatever the limiting resource is. With crocodiles being territorial, the limiting resource tends to be area of suitable habitat. So matter what the food availability, the population is limited by the amount of available habitat. As for feral animals like pigs, buffalo, horses, donkeys and cattle, they compete with native herbivores, such as kangaroo species, reducing their numbers. All up, there is probably not a significant increase in food availability. But even if there is, it is more likely to have an effect on the rate of growth than on ultimate population size.

    Estuarine crocodiles in Australia, despite popular belief to the contrary, were NEVER endangered.

    Blue
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 22, 2013
  20. Wing_Nut

    Wing_Nut Well-Known Member

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    I disagree with the overall effect feral species have had on populations of crocodiles. Many of the feral populations have higher requirements for water, and accordingly frequent water sources far more often which brings them into contact with crocodiles more regularly. Also, many of the feral species breed far more prolifically, and similar areas sustain larger populations when compared to native species. Furthermore, the introduced feral species have damaged the environment to the extent that many of the predators of juvinile crocodiles have been reduced in numbers. I simply don't agree that feral animals have not played a major part in the explosion of crocodile populations.
     
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