My first venomous snake handle!!!! <----no need for capti

[JandC_Reptiles]

I have a problem because I ask for a thread to remain civil DAMNNNN!

I am sure when you suggested Ray take up knitting etc it was said in a genuine manner with no sarcasm involved. Pfftt. Anyway for some1 that constantly bags out any Herper with a bigger name in the hobby than yourself to say I have a problem of some sort is nothing more than comical imo. Bit like the kettle calling the pot black although in this case the kettle would be talking to the toaster as I havn't slagged off anybody. This coming from the guy who insists a certain deceased Herper doesn't know diddly about reptiles (yes I can dig up your posts if you like &amp; I havn't repeated all that was said due to content). And Dee has the gaul to say I verbally bash ppl lol. The only problem I seem to have is that if I dont share the opinion of the majority than I am labelled with a problem of some sort

Ray isn't incompetent at all Cris, he keeps alot of Elapids &amp; is very much competent. More so than those here who have never handled an Elapid &amp; still hold a class 1 licence but seem to be in a position to call him incompetent lol (yes you youngins &amp; newbies know who you are). He did voiding for his displays which are now more popular than other displays due to the hands on approach getting jobs in schools &amp; shopping malls etc, so Ray is getting more business than other exhibitionists and in turn more money than the others. Regardless of what the ill informed will say, that is part reason for the anti-Ray debacle (notice I said anti-Ray not anti-venomoid before you jump on the soap box)

Anyways enjoy this thread guys I have been asked to back off!
You can PM any further issues you have trueblue or any1 else.

 

[NCHERPS]

There are of course many new people joining APS every day, and so new members who haven't heard about Venomoids and Ray's chosen method of carrying out the proceedure can make up there own minds, you make out as if people haven't got the common sense to make up there own judgements after evaluating the evidence.

How do I make out like people havn't got the common sense?
IT WAS ME who stated throw up the link &amp; let them make their own decisions.
IT WAS ME who stated post the petition link than leave it at that.
IT WAS ME telling others not to continuously repeat themselves &amp; force their opinion onto others. I insisted post a thread to the facts &amp; than leave the post alone as there is no need to repeat whats already been said and slander Ray (which is usually the outcome).

Tell me this, if that is the case &amp; your honest opinion NCHERPS, then why is there a need for MULTIPLE people to state the exact same thing in this 1 thread? I mean it was all said in post number 2 than again in post number 3 than 4 than 5 than 6 etc. Come on, you single me out and say I dont give people credit haha, I am not the 1 repeating the 15 posts before mine word for word trying to drum it into the newbies heads

That's my point, you have just said it yourself, you believe that because people wish to talk about the issue alot, that they are brain washing(or in your words'Drumming it into Newbies heads').
Just because they are newbies, doesn't mean they are nieve young kids, many are well educated adults with there own minds, more than capable of making up there own minds without the need for any drumming, if they feel that what is being said is repetative, then they can simply not click on the next page or the next page of the thread.
No one is having there opinions Forced onto others at all.
Why didn't you post up the link to Hosers site if you felt that it was one sided?

 

[Kiwicam]

Well I checked out some pics of Mr. Hosers so called 'Operations', and I must admit I was disgusted! The poor thing taped to a lump of wood with a bunch of nails in it with it's mouth forced open by way of some rubber bands!

I thought OK so he is operating, and expected to see a slightly professional and sterile setup....wrong! That crap looks like something out of 'Hostel', (I know those sutures sure as hell are, either that or the cat did them)!!
Complete with madman hacking away at defenceless creatures to compensate for his own inadequacies...these ppl should be stopped!

Also I have failed to find any reference to MR. Hosers Veterinary Degree... (made clearly evident by the conditions), correct me if I am wrong.
You know I always wanted to be a Doctor, maybe I should tape some ppl to a block of wood and operate for no good reason...actually I think I can do that in Eastern Europe somewhere!

So that's my opinion - like it or leave it, but I am certainly not gonna sit on here and bicker about it.

 

[andrew_555]

good point kiwicam,

the point remains that we (as civilised people) cannot simpy operate on animals without the correct training. If i have an enclosure and the snake is a a little to big for it, do i peg it out on a wooden board and shorten it a little? Do vets even do this devenoming procedure?

 

[TrueBlue]

cris, do i really have to reapeat myself again.?? :roll:

JandC,- when i suggested ANYONE who does this is in the wrong profession and should maybe take up knitting, im deadly serious as thats how i feel about it. IMO they are incompetent to even consider this behavour, and definitly need to be removed from the industry.!!!!
Constantly bagging big name herpers, :roll: , who prey tell, theres only a couple that ive bagged and i have valid reasons, someone rips me off ill let them know, and yes my opinion of your mentioned dead herper still stands, thats my opinion. There is also enough proof out there to varify my opinion.!!

 

[andrew_555]

Justify his actions?
Why should anyone have to justify themselves to a group of strangers over the internet? Thats my point, you all think you are his judge, jurror &amp; executioner rolled into 1.

fairly simpistic argument you have there. To allow action without justification, in this laissez faire fashion, is irresponsible. People should have the right to question the actions of others, otherwise we would be, in our silence, condoning his actions. If he can justify what he does, then this conversation would likely take a different course. I am open to changing my opinion of this matter.

 

[NoOne]

It still amazes me that people bother to argue with J and C, it's obvious he just trying to have an arguement, why bother wasting your time with him, your not going to change his mind.

Every thread where there has been a pretty one sided feeling he jumps in and stirs people, people don't waste your time on him.................thats my opinion just as valid as anyone. :lol:

 

[junglepython2]

RE: Re: RE: MY FIRST VENOMOUS SNAKE HANDLE!!!!

all those snakes were so freely being handled.. 4 yo kids were passing around collets snakes

Doesn't that say it all, a 4 yo kid isn't going to know any better when he sees one in the wild.

 

[TrueBlue]

RE: Re: RE: MY FIRST VENOMOUS SNAKE HANDLE!!!!

ya duga ive just realised that, some people just have no idea at all.

 

[andrew_555]

RE: Re: RE: MY FIRST VENOMOUS SNAKE HANDLE!!!!

i think J and C raises some interesting points. It is always good to have someone playing devils advocate, there are too many mutual appreciation societies around. Although i dont necessarily agree with his views, i am glad that he made them.

 

[rodentrancher]

RE: Re: RE: MY FIRST VENOMOUS SNAKE HANDLE!!!!

Lordy, is HE WHO SHALL NOT BE NAMED STILL AROUND? Thought he would have been lynched by now? :lol:

 

[cris]

RE: Re: RE: MY FIRST VENOMOUS SNAKE HANDLE!!!!

Doesn't that say it all, a 4 yo kid isn't going to know any better when he sees one in the wild.

I imagine there is going to be a rapid increase in fatal collets snake bites in melbourne, very sad :wink: Its no differant to letting them handle harmless snakes(they are harmless anyway) the average kid wouldnt know any differant.

TB, I still dont understand how these ppl are somehow incompetant? you have mentioned it in just about every post in this thread, could you please explain.

 

[andrew_555]

RE: Re: RE: MY FIRST VENOMOUS SNAKE HANDLE!!!!

i dont mean to speak on behalf of TB, but backyard surgery surely falls under that category. Even the wisest members of this forum would advice vetenary consultation on such matters. Also, others suggested that those who choose to own elapids should be prepared to keep them in their complete form. If i wanted a scrub python, yet did not like one of it's characteristics, size for example, should i simply under feed it to stunt it's growth? Or perhaps remove teeth of a particularly bitey jungle.

 

[TrueBlue]

RE: Re: RE: MY FIRST VENOMOUS SNAKE HANDLE!!!!

:roll: , ANYBODY who would consider to do this for any reason is in my opinion incometent. If you cannot handle an animal the way it is, dont do it, simple. They, JandC and yourself can cry all you want about how it can be justified but if you are truley into the animals for what they are,(not want you want them to be), there is no way in hell you can justifiy it.
Now it seems the excuse is for profit, :roll: , another pathetic excuse for incompetence.
Here we go folks, lets rip the venom glands out of our snakes so we can make more money. :shock: :roll:
Now that is pathetic and incompetent.

 

[snakes4me2]

RE: Re: RE: MY FIRST VENOMOUS SNAKE HANDLE!!!!

ok then cris....tell me why it is ok to do it?, what is the point of it? (apart from being incompetent and too scared to hold a venomous snake)

 

[cris]

RE: Re: RE: MY FIRST VENOMOUS SNAKE HANDLE!!!!

What you are saying just doesnt make sence TB how are they incompetant? The way you are using the word doesnt make any sence to me.
I have heard you say they are incompetant a few times now what do you mean by it? there are heaps of ppl who are clearly competant snake handlers who have voided snakes having a voided snake cant magically make someone an incompetant handler so what are they incompetant at?

ok then cris....tell me why it is ok to do it?, what is the point of it? (apart from being incompetent and too scared to hold a venomous snake)

Its OK for ppl to do this to their own animals if they want too, Its up to the idividual how they treat their animals IMO.
As i said earlier i dont want to get in an arguement so im not going to give any more of a responce than that.

 

[andrew_555]

RE: Re: RE: MY FIRST VENOMOUS SNAKE HANDLE!!!!

i cant stand the irony any more guys, incompetent is spelt with an 'e'

 

[snakes4me2]

RE: Re: RE: MY FIRST VENOMOUS SNAKE HANDLE!!!!

Thats fair enough, i can understand not wanting to argue. I will try for TB to explain it.

By incopmetent he means if you arent game enough to handle a venomous snake then dont.
Dont devenomise them so you can say "hey im cool i got a venomous snake" thats not even venomous.

I would love a tiapan but would only have it with venom, its the way the snake is

 

[TrueBlue]

RE: Re: RE: MY FIRST VENOMOUS SNAKE HANDLE!!!!

:roll: come on cris geezz.
Those "heaps" of people that you refer to imo are clearly NOT competent at all, they may of been at some stage, but if they have to remove venom glads to make themselves or peolpe around them feel safer then they are definitly INCOMPETENT.!! and definitly need to be removed from the industry.
Is that clear enough for you to understand.!!!!!

 

[cris]

RE: Re: RE: MY FIRST VENOMOUS SNAKE HANDLE!!!!

By incopmetent he means if you arent game enough to handle a venomous snake then dont.
Dont devenomise them so you can say "hey im cool i got a venomous snake" thats not even venomous.

Im am against this too, but there are heaps of ppl who dont fit this category. There are also plenty of ppl who keep non venomous snakes and venomous elapids for the wrong reasons too, IMO this is a seperate issue.

i cant stand the irony any more guys, incompetent is spelt with an 'e'

:shock: oh no i made a spelling mistake am i going to lose any marks? :lol: