My old man Found clutch of eggs hatching

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...I think what we're missing here is that the record of the communal breeding is really cool- probably the first time it's been seen. A really cool record (if it's recorded- maybe send an email to the herp people at the museum?).

-H
Well said H! We've almost completely overlooked this very interesting record of communal nesting in Delma fraseri.
Come to think of it, I can't recall any other documented cases of communal egg-laying in Pygopods at all.

Jonesy, do you or your dad happen to know what sort of ant nest it was? Do you have any more pics?
 
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Nah sorry not sure what kind of ants they were and I havnt actually seen the site at all. I think I might have to go for a drive this weekend and have a look around and try and get some more details :) HERP TRIP!!! HahA
 
Actually it's quite funny, just last weekend I was out with my father and found a Delma petersoni. I had to try to convince him I knew what it was. In the end I picked it up and showed him it's ears. I must admit, the thought did cross my mind to do the whole "wait a minute, where's it's ears".
But back on this find, I agree, the communal nesting is very interesting and what threw me. Good find.

Whoops sorry, just saw GeckoJosh's post. Didnt know that.
 

As was mentioned, the tails in pygopods are longer than the SVL (snout-vent length) of the animals, while those in elapids are shorter. In Delma species, which have particularly long tails, the tail is 3 to 4 times the body length (SVL). In dugites the tail length is around 15% of the SVL.

Thought I would Google up some images to further illustrate this. I have to say though, that it does not help when provided with the first of the following images labelled as an example of a “hatchling dugite”. It is, of course, an image of Delma fraseri. The second image is the genuine article from Brian Bush. It clearly shows the short tail of elapids in comparison to pygopods.
Not a dugite.jpgaff-juv.jpg

If you examine the image of the D.fraseri, as it begins to bend towards the left, there is slight but definite reduction in diameter of the animal. This is where the body ends and the tail begins. If you apply the same procedure to the original photo, the body ends about level with the top of the key and the rest is tail.

It is also worth knowing that pygopods have divided ventrals in contrast to the single belly scales of elapids.

Blue





 
I asked a friend of mine who has herped SW WA his whole life: he reckons he's seen communal nesting in fraseri a few times. He suggests that it's probably a result of limited locations to lay rather than actively seeking to lay in the same place.

A really cool sighting, none the less. I'd never heard of communal nesting in Delmas so I certainly learnt something.
 
As a note if they were Dugites they have the potential to inflict a deadly bite straight from the egg.

Here is a couple of pics of hatchling Dugites to demonstrate the similarities180782_10150122030494889_7394681_n.jpg183843_10150122029209889_4862375_n.jpg
 
Just as a further note, I recall that a bloke died in WA a year or two ago from being bitten (between the toes?) by a hatchling dugite - and I believe he was sitting at his computer at the time... Can anyone from the west verify this? Bloody Brown Snakes of all species... so common and sooo dangerous, at any size. And when I think of how casual I was with them as a kid living in Perth...

I don't expect anyone to eat humble pie when I'm being a smartypants Patrick lol!

Jamie
 
The incident you refer to Jamie happened 26th November 2010 in GinGin where it was reported a dugite under 42cm bit a man on the toe (unconfirmed if it was between them) and he later died.

I remember seeing you chase a particularly aggressive dugite around 5ft long across a certain bird shop carpark! I was surprised to see how fast that snake could actually move.

Regards

Wing_Nut
 
Surely you must admit you are wrong even with your knowledge and experience with reptiles you can see in that second pic it is definetely no Delma.

Haha, so are you going to admit your wrong and apologise now? :lol: They're clearly Delmas, once you've seen a few it's obvious.
 
The above is a young adult, the degree of patterning and it's intensity vary with age.
 
The incident you refer to Jamie happened 26th November 2010 in GinGin where it was reported a dugite under 42cm bit a man on the toe (unconfirmed if it was between them) and he later died.

I remember seeing you chase a particularly aggressive dugite around 5ft long across a certain bird shop carpark! I was surprised to see how fast that snake could actually move.

Regards

Wing_Nut

The snake was a Western Brown as far as I was told, not a Dugite.
 
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