My Python family

Discussion in 'General Reptile Discussion' started by Lanea, May 16, 2018.

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  1. Bluetongue1

    Bluetongue1 APS Veteran APS Veteran

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    @cris. You completely missed the mark on that one! That sort of attempt at humour needs to be targeted at an appropriate recipient. A new keeper asking critical question is definitely not appropriate. Something to bear in mind for the future…

    @Lanea. The post form Cris was meant to be a humorous comparison of male versus female differences using photography as the vehicle – the males stay out of the pictures they take of objects, while females supposedly want their faces in the pictures of objects they photograph. I’ll bet money this particular meme was created by a male.

    I love the photographs and believe having a beautiful lady such as yourself holding the animals only enhances the result, both in terms of aesthetics and being clearly indicative of the friendly, laid back nature of the snakes when in human company. Great job!

    Looking at the photos of the carpet, its body condition looks OK. It has the capacity to put on a little more weight, but not very much. It is certainly not emaciated. So Paul’s advice can be followed without you feeling worried about adverse effects on the reptile. Its body systems are geared to stop eating at this time of year and its body condition is well and truly sufficient to support that.

    In terms of care required for any of your species, please do not hesitate to ask, even if you feel it’s a “dumb question”, as the majority of experienced members here are only here to share their wealth of practical knowledge and help others to be successful keepers as well.
     
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  2. Lanea

    Lanea Not so new Member

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    @Bluetongue1 THANK YOU!!!! I really appreciate those words, and have had similar words sent to me via PM by other respected members here (you know who you are, wink)

    The problem with such unsolicited, sexist comments, (even if intent is not such) it feeds the notion that ladies should stay away from snakes, especially pretty ones! It also feeds the notion that we can’t love and be proud of our pets the same way, others do who choose to keep cats, puppies, rabbits etc bc they’re from the *dark & dangerous realm* (cue creepy music)

    All my girlfriends pose with their kitties and puppies and its ok, why is it not ok to do the same with a creature who IMO is far more magnificent - which I am sure all of us here agree on that. So it should actually make males happy to see women posing with their snakes, because in our era, instead of just the men trying to explain why they are incredible, fascinating and harmless, women are assisting in this and influencing others too, sometimes perhaps even to a more effective degree to their audience, than a man may be able to. (not by rule, depends on the audience of course)

    The thing is (and I *REALLY* hope men with similar opinions as that MEME, whether they are meaning to be derogatory or just unaware what these comments are) really read this, because its a VERY IMPORTANT INSIGHT for those who may be unaware of the flow on effect that happens when a woman becomes interested in reptiles...

    Since getting my 4 gorgeous pythons in the past fortnight, and posting pictures like this on social media, and sending text pics to friends introducing my gorgeous pythons, I have had 8 girl friends come over to meet them. People / women who HATE snakes but love me. They are feeling, holding, learning & even getting photos taken with them. These 8 women go to their circle of friends, their workplaces, their families and tell their people about their day and how they met and had a meet and greet with the most adorable friendly pythons. They are posting their snake pics on their social media and then all their friend get to see it and learn about it. It sets off a POSITIVE chain reaction that benefits our community as a whole.

    Whether you are a (yep gonna use some sterotypes here) city slicker in an apartment with a snake, a breeder with 100 of them, country folk who welcome local pythons into their homes, a suburban family keeping a python in a garage, a drag queen who has a python and uses it in her weekend show for shock value, a tom boy girl who loves creepy crawlies, or in my case a champas drinking, make up wearing, glam girl who adores reptiles - together as a whole we are influencing and educating people in our circles.

    Would a bunch of drag queen fans be as interested in a snake by being shown a pic of one? Perhaps not? My school mums? Def not!

    A 38 yr old lady like myself photographed with a snake, may not interest some. But my 8 year old daughter is going to school daily talking about snakes, and how we should love them, and how her mummy has 4 & together we are going to look after them. She shows off her snake photos of her and her mummy holding and feeding our pythons. 25 kids in her class are now interested in her snakes and ask her for updates, as are THEIR PARENTS!! How great for the future generation. Just remember our reptile community is made up of all types. We all bring attention and education to these fascinating creatures in our OWN INDIVIDUAL way.

    Would some of the school kids and school mums be as interested in our families snakes if I weren’t in the pic. TBH, Probably not. For a mum or a child, seeing a woman in a dress holding a snake is a ‘psychological endorsement’ that they are in fact safe and harmless. It's shallow but works. It actually helps break down the barrier that they are scary. So a pretty chick with a snake, should be welcomed even if you don't get it, because there is a bigger picture going on here!

    Check this for example: I invited my next door neighbors children to come over and meet the snakes. My neighbor is from Africa and is deathy afraid bc she assimilates ALL snakes with BLACK MAMBA from her homeland. Again, not educated about our beautiful pythons. I invited her and her children over. She was literally sweating. She is relatively new to the country (5 yrs) I explained all about Aussie pythons. She has other African family up in Darwin who came through the refugee arrangement. They are all petrified of seeing a snake up there, which its only a matter of time before they do. My neighbor didn’t hold the snake. But came to look and feel its skin and after I assured her the pythons are safe she allowed her children to meet them and have a python hug.

    She then emailed her family in Darwin showing them about 20 beautiful pics of her 5 children with Aussie snakes wrapped around them. See we all play our role in helping the reptile community. Whoever we share our pythons with shares their experience with others. Who knows, perhaps now, instead of putting a shovel through the head of a beautiful python out of fear, (again, a stereotype sorry) new immigrants related to my neighbor in Darwin, may be less fearful, admire the python from a distance and let it be on its merry way. That's what I like to think happens by teaching them about snakes. Her coming over to my house was initiated by me sending her a text with a python wrapped around me offering her children an opportunity to come and meet them. Had I have just sent a pic of a snake, no way would she have come over.

    A8E52162-48C0-4B0B-B589-A9CF0DAAAAD5.jpeg 4FA058D9-FB05-4DC3-9671-019D074181E0.jpeg F596184C-18C4-4EBF-9775-3191936B3401.jpeg 88CE063C-459C-403B-ABA2-58C083D82835.jpeg

    To be honest, having my daughter interested and her school mates in snakes is fabulous to me, but to me the greatest success was my husband who had a SNAKE PHOBIA allowing me to have them, then graduating to helping me clean their homes and feed them, then handling them little by little, and now enjoying them and fascinated by them. He comes home from work, kisses his kids and goes to each enclosure to see what my 4 pythons are up to. This started because, over the 12 years we have been together, any chance I get where I see a python, I have to know all about it, touch it hold it, talk to the owner about its behaviour, and wrap up encounter, by being wrapped up by the python for a posey photo for my snake pic collection. Over the years, he has seen that if his lipstick wearing, girlie, dress wearing, champagne drinking, high heeled, little 5 ft wife isn't afraid and adores these creatures and has *never* been bitten, then maybe he needs to be more open minded about snakes. And so hence, we now have 4 pythons.

    The real kicker....

    Here is a pic of him with a snake around his head. Yep, snake selfies arent just for chicks!

    * Thumb to nose and tongue out to @cris* LOL - But we're all cool and thanks for the welcome, wink!

    E5AFAE76-5C16-4DE4-AE67-CC94F75864B1.jpeg
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2018
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  3. Buggster

    Buggster Well-Known Member

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    Beautiful snakes!
    I’m hoping to get myself a GTP at the end of the year to add to my collection so I’m super jealous of your gorgeous boy.

    Unfortunately not all of us can get a GTP the second we see them- I’ll be upgrading my license in September so I can keep one. Only a painful three years of waiting!

    You’re going to get a lot of comments both in the real world and online for what you do. Some people just can’t imagine a woman being confident with any sort of reptile!
    Heck, I’ve been asked why I bought ‘big’ snakes since I won’t be able to handle them when they grow up since I’ll be too scared of them. Umm... excuse me?

    People will want to tell you how to do things and that you’re doing everything wrong. Tell them to eff off and mind their own business. As long as you’re doing right by your animals, there shouldn’t be a problem!

    And of course welcome to the wonderful world of herps! And don’t worry, your collection of 4 will grow to 40 before you even know it (seriously- I was told I was allowed *one* snake. 4 snakes and 4 geckos later... whoops xD)
     
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  4. cris

    cris Almost Legendary

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    I did not mean to be mean, was just a meme. There are also people like myself who do not seek to anthropomorphize snakes. It is important to consider diversity.

    That is probably a healthy starting position, plenty of Australian snakes are also potentially dangerous.
     
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  5. Lanea

    Lanea Not so new Member

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    @cris - agree with ya on diversity, how boring if we were all the same aye?

    And do respect your viewpoint re anthropomorphizining, and understand why it may be annoying for those that don’t do it.

    Peace man ✌️


    Re the Black Mumba comment, it’s her only reference point about snakes, and my poor neighbour thought that all snakes in Australia were poisonous. She was terrified when she learned I had snakes and wanted to move out. Our kids play together and talk, so I thought it was important that instead of her looking for a new rental, I explain what a Python is. And yes, totally agree with you regarding poisonous aussie snakes. Explained to her that if her children see a snake they must not touch it, or even go near it as it’s likely to be poisonous. Showed her who to call (council / local snake catcher) if they see one so it can be removed safely as we live in a new estate near undeveloped land. Explained to the kids that while my snakes are not dangerous, others that are sometimes seen in the area *are* dangerous and are *not* for holding. Also showed them what to do if they see a snake while they’re playing and parents aren’t around.
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2018
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  6. Pauls_Pythons

    Pauls_Pythons Power Seller Power Seller

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    Not much I can say after reading your posts Lanea but you articulated your point perfectly.
    While it is your thread I would just like to suggest that if anyone has a problem with your pics they only need to click on the home tab and they will be saved from having to see them.
     
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  7. Bl69aze

    Bl69aze Very Well-Known Member

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    I hope you mean that SHE thought snakes were “poisonous”, and that YOU know snakes are venomous not poisonous :p


    Easy way to remember; if you bite it and it makes you sick, it’s poisonous/ if it bites you and makes you sick, it’s venomous
     
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  8. Lanea

    Lanea Not so new Member

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    Naaaw shucks, been found out. Grammar and proofreading are my weak points... :)

    Probably bc I’m cooking dinner, looking after 3 kids, renovating, working FT, caring for pythons all while chatting on a forum via iPhone :)

    But point noted. Still have my L plates on!! Yes indeed you are correct, they are venomous not poisonous #blushing #NewbLingo
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2018
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  9. GBWhite

    GBWhite Well-Known Member

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    Hi again Lanea,

    I understand your intentions to educate your friends (and their friends) about snakes and applaud your enthusiasm but I'm going to be a bit brutal here. It's not my intention to offend, just to give you a little heads up out of genuine concern for the future welfare of your snakes.

    Allowing so many different people to handle you critters in the short period of time you have had them is not conducive to maintaining the animals in good health. As I mentioned in your other thread, it can possibly lead to serious health problems down the track and is more than likely contributing to why you're having trouble getting the Carpet to feed. Please, now that you've hopefully got letting your friends and neighbour handling them out of your system, let the animals be for a good period of time so they can adjust to you and their new surroundings. Albeit your good intention to prove to people that snakes are not as bad as thought by allowing them to take photos of them handling your snakes and, no matter how much a snake has been handled prior to acquisition, it does a snake no good at all to be constantly removed from their enclosures and thrust into the hands of a dozen or so different people for them to take photographs to post on public media sites at any time but, especially after recently being relocated to a new home. Nor is it good for then to be disturbed constantly on a daily basis to top up water or clean enclosures. Snakes do drink water but they acquire the majority of their fluids via the whole animals that they eat, so in fact they can quite easily survive by just offering water once a week and at this time of the year even once a fortnight. If the enclosure for your GPT is set up correctly then there should be no need to spray it daily, maybe once a week or every third day if the humidity drops but definitely not daily.

    You may not be aware but there are quite a number of ladies involved in educating the public about snakes who are quite competent in educating friends and the general public without placing them around their neck for photographs. The best way to educate anyone about snakes is to be a responsible keeper who can educate others by providing informative, relevant advice through continually educating themselves about snake behaviour both in their natural habitat and in suburban situation.

    All the best with your critters.

    Cheers,

    George.
     
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  10. Lanea

    Lanea Not so new Member

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    No not brutal. I can take it and respect the opinions and advice of others, as long as it is well intended and I sense it is from you. Not sure if you saw my other post on other thread to you, saying thank you and that I appreciated your advice. I also explained there that the snakes were introduced to people and photographed because I already needed to take them out of their enclosure for specific reasons, mentioned these in the other thread also, but you may not have seen my reply to you as yet. All the snakes are in separate rooms, in quiet spaces with minimal touching, bar the few occasions that I photographed, but they weren't taken out just for photo's if that makes sense. The coastal is the exception because he has unfortunately been over handled by the people who raised him. (I handled him twice in 8 days, so even so it wasn't excessive like I was taking them out every 5 minutes, or even daily for that matter) I have placed him into a spare, quiet room that doesn't get interruptions. The carpet had feeding problems whilst in the pet shop. I aim to be patient with him and haven't handled him, since the second day I got him.

    Please be assured the snakes are NOT BEING TAKEN OUT of their enclosures simply for photographs. The other post explains, I had to change the GTPs perch from PVC to natural. So I let the kids see him while I had to take him out. I can see here I have ruffled feathers with my snake pics. I don't walk around my house with snakes around me taking selfies, but it seems that is the impression I have given with my pics. The snakes don't actually come out, they are settling, and I have implemented strategies so that I don't need to keep giving them fresh water daily. i.e.: Bigger bowls. Turkey basters, etc. The times that they were introduced to people was because I was already taking the snake out for reasons explained, in the other post. Most definitely didn't invite people to come over, and bring out my snakes for ****s and giggles and snake pics.

    Re: GTP I set it up exactly as the breeder had his in QLD and spray with warm mist daily, as per instructions of breeder.

    Regarding, women educators. I am very aware and familiar with our local educators and applaud them bc they do an incredible job. I am not trying to educate the world. Just my close circle of friends and children because of the misconceptions they had and fears they had about me owning pythons. I also run a business from home. Please be assured that I am not draping visitors with Pythons, like a Hawaiian Lei when they walk through my door. My snakes are all away from my children, under lock and key and are not to be touched. None are even within site in our main rooms, except GTP who is in a quiet part of the house. All others are away in separate rooms where no one goes, low traffic areas, so they can settle in. The pics that were taken were taken before putting the snakes into their new homes and the occasion when I had to change over that PVC pipe to a treated driftwood.

    My comments re: women with snakes were specifically related to the Meme. Not trying to be a Martyr and say I am the woman who is going to be the face of snake education in Victoria.

    I'm clearly pissing people off and people now incorrectly think I play with them every 5 mins, which is so far from who I am. Most of the time, I can't even see my snakes, bc they are in their hides, except for GTP who is a gorgeous green lump, who I leave alone and sit next to while reading a book or something....

    I do feel I have started on the wrong foot.
    I dunno, thinking maybe I should deactivate my account.
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2018
  11. GBWhite

    GBWhite Well-Known Member

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    No, I don't think you've pissed people off or that you have started on the wrong foot. Yes, I did read your reply and your reason but I think (at least in my case) that by stating you contacted 8 girlfriends and the neighbours and invited them over to hold the snakes as well as post pics of you all made up holding the snakes dressed in several different outfits might have contributed to giving the impression that as new acquisitions, they were being over handled (which by the way, and please don't take this the wrong way, I still believe they were). All things considered, to have let the snakes settle in for few weeks before inviting them around may have been a better option.

    No need to deactivate your account either. In fact, being new to the hobby, it might pay to hang around where you can ask questions and get feedback from very, very experienced keepers who have have been around this game for a long, long time and hold a plethora of information and advice to share.

    All the best.
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2018
  12. Buggster

    Buggster Well-Known Member

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    Just a re handing thing:

    In the first couple of months when your snake is still settling in, keeping handling to an absolute minimum is in the best interest of the snake- especially if they’re a problem feeder. Take them out, put them in a holding container/pillow case and return them when you’re done.

    While giving it to other people to hold may not seem like a huge issue, you’re inevitably prolonging how long the snake is out, and being handled by someone who isn’t a confident handler can be stressful to the snake.

    Right now it’s winter- feeding is going to be down and so is actively. During this period, I touch my snakes as little as possible- they get a weekly health check when I change out their water, but other than that they are left to cool and cycle by themselves. If I were to get them out and wake them up, they would become active again- and they would use their energy stores. Since they’re not feeding, using up stores in their body before spring can be downright dangerous to them.

    Spring/summer is a whole new story though. My Stimmie is a sweetheart and I could easily have him out for hours- watched LOTR with him curled around my neck. He doesn’t stress or freak out easily. If someone wants to see a snake, I’m always reaching for him first- he’s small and doesn’t mind being passed around.

    My Woma is a bit different- still a sweet snake, but once he’s had enough handling he’ll let you know. Obviously I never want to push him to the point where he does stress, so I keep handling short. I do bring him out if people want to see him, but I’m always very aware of what he wants and not what the people want. Im not making him stay a second longer than he wants.

    My Diamond is again a whole new snake. I don’t let people handle him period as he is still such a skittish snake. He’s improved in leaps and bounds, but he does stress so easily it’s not in his best interest to be handled by someone inexperienced.

    Neighbours kids love my snakes, but we’ve got very firm rules about how to touch them and how to ask to touch. Right now I’m not letting them come disturb any of the snakes since it is in that autumn/winter period. In warmer months I will let them have a hold of the Stimmie, and let them pet the Woma.

    Taking the snake out for the sake of photos isn’t necessarily a bad thing- most snakes do enjoy coming out of their enclosures to explore and get a bit of fresh air, but it’s not something I would do with new or nonfeeding animals.

    Get to know your animals before introducing other people into the equation. You are your snakes advocate and voice- but if you don’t know what they’re trying to say things are inevitably going to go wrong
     
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  13. Bl69aze

    Bl69aze Very Well-Known Member

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    Looks like she left :(
     
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  14. vampstorso

    vampstorso Very Well-Known Member

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    It's a shame people don't feel welcome here when we want the site to grow.


    I sent her a message and I hope she feels comfortable to come back.
     
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  15. Bluetongue1

    Bluetongue1 APS Veteran APS Veteran

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    One point that seems to have been missed here is the reactions of the snakes when handled. If a snake is not comfortable and feels stressed by being handled, it will show it. It will attempt to escape, often striking or recoiling at minor movement stimuli. This was not in evidence so any stress incurred must have been pretty minimal.

    Handling a snake is not a natural experience that it seeks. However, snakes have the capacity to adjust to it. Whether one believes that usually depends on which side of the fence you stand – a handler or a non-handling advocate. I have seen a number of different mobile zoos/reptile educators where their pythons and lizards are handled by the audience, often simply to pose for a photo. The Hawkesbury Herp Society run a photo booth at their annual expo - for people holding or draped with reptiles. Where these events run all day, the reptiles used are rotated in shifts to ‘give them a break’, the same as for the humans working there. Despite the frequency and duration of these animals being handled by total strangers, they do not stop feeding etc. and remain healthy.

    The prevailing school of thought here is to gradually ease getting animals used to human interaction. I don’t think spending less than 30 seconds two or three times a week to provide fresh water is going to have any significant detrimental effect on that. An interesting alternative was told to me by a very well-respected keeper who has taipans in his collection. Taipans are renowned for being highly reactive around humans. They do, however, get accustomed to humans and have been described as “big puppies” once they get to this stage. This person places new and highly reactive taipans in a glass cabinet in a high traffic area of the house. They start out arcing up at every movement but within a few days have learned to ignore these. He tells me it takes less than a week for them to settle and this makes feeding and cleaning so much easier and safer for him. …Food for thought.

    @Buggster. Your heart is in the right place but… Why do you feel the need to do a weekly “health check” and what aspects of health do you check? This seems contradictory your advice to leave snakes alone at this time of year (which is still autumn and not yet winter). New acquisitions from another keeper do not need 2 months to settle in or did you mean 2 weeks. The positive points made are that individual snakes differ and to learn to ‘read’ your snakes and tailor what you do with them accordingly.
    --- Automatic Post Merged, May 21, 2018, Original Post Date: May 21, 2018 ---
    Jumping to incorrect conclusions yet again.

    She is here but not posting. Would you bother posting after being hammered based on false assumptions and then being hammered again after explaining in detail the responsible approach that she had taken?
     
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  16. Bl69aze

    Bl69aze Very Well-Known Member

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    Her profile picture was removed, I thought that meant she had deleted her account ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
     
  17. Pauls_Pythons

    Pauls_Pythons Power Seller Power Seller

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    Maybe if the forum was a nicer place where newbies could get easy answers without the need for criticism they may not feel the need to hide. We were all new to the hobby once and I'm fairly confident we all made a few mistakes along the way. Social media give new comers to the hobby the opportunity to not make those same mistakes.
     
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  18. SpottedPythons

    SpottedPythons Well-Known Member

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    Just as a quick question: Are there any states where GTPs are allowed on a Basic (R1 equivalent) license? Cause here in NSW there's no way you'd be able to get a GTP as a first snake.
     
  19. vampstorso

    vampstorso Very Well-Known Member

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    .
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2018
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  20. Lanea

    Lanea Not so new Member

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    • Not gone - Won’t be going
    • Did delete Avatar, bc maybe people thought I was a dumb chick with no right to play with snakes. I’ve replaced it bc I shouldn't have allowed myself to be intimidated and remove it to begin with because I am proud of who I am!
    • We have all made rookie errors with our reptiles. I’ve definitely made mine and will probably make a few more :)
    • GTP in melb is a level 2. My first snake actually was a spotted. GTP was the last I acquired within a 2 week period. I’ve been around snakes 15 years, first time they are in my name
    • Re: Stress on the snake, lol I literally can open my coastals glass door and he slides onto my body. I’ve adopted/rescued him and he was raised over-handled
    • Re: Anthropomorphism - Our big hero Irwin did it more than anyone, ‘Big girl, darling, sweet heart, gorgeous’ Re: All kinds of incredible creatures...
    • @Bluetongue1 @Pauls_Pythons @vampstorso @Bl69aze @Buggster Thank you for your support in the forum and or via PM - Blessings
    If anyone wants to give advice it’s welcomed. BUT please read my well detailed previous posts prior. It’s more than likely that anything you want to address has already been explained.

    Was going to leave, but thought this place offeres valuable information I can use and I’ve aleady made new friends. Besides as they say, ‘you can’t please all of the people all of the time, only some of the people some of the time’

    Gives no one the right to be belligerent though because they raise their snakes differently.

    A bit abt me: I’m also a very busy mother of a child with an intellectual disability and cerebral palsy. So don’t worry, if I’m not here I’m not sooking in a corner because someone critiqued my post, I’m just busy being super mum! (Jokes - He is a super kid, I’m blessed to have. He teaches me more about life than I could ever teach him)

    Cheers!! Have a great day all - It’s all water under the bridge. If I am going to continue being here I need to accept the fact it a community of differing opinions.
    --- Automatic Post Merged, May 21, 2018 ---
    In Vic you can start on a license 2, you’re right. Just a higher fee. (In Vic anyway) You don’t need to hold level 1 for a period of time first
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2018
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